The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#121

Post by thatcat » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:42 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #89

flgb wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia doesn’t require voter ID either. Voter ID is a vehicle for voter suppression (and generally called for by the politically conservative).

You’re right. I forgot Australia and NZ. Never the less even left leaning or liberal countries out there require ID to vote: Brazil (was left), Sweden, Spain, Greece (Syriza), but then you have truly poor countries with truly poor people who still pull it off, like The Gambia, Ukraine, Libya, etc. Ukraine and The Gambia are made up of many ethnicities and they manage to do it. None the less, we're down the list at no…

Voter id is not required because by requiring it you shift voter demographics away from poor/minority/elderly people who don't have an id. The cost for an id should be zero if it is required to vote.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#122

Post by paulddraper » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:43 AM UTC

waffle_ss wrote: post #76

reaperducer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised. In many of the states where I've lived (13 so far), all that was needed to vot…

Umm the 1700's in America were the era of needing to have land ownership to vote (more than half of white men couldn't vote), poll taxes, exclusion of blacks, native Americans, and women, religious tests, and so on. The 15th Amendment that changed some of that wasn't even passed until 1870. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St...

Yeah, "old school" was very much for extensive voter qualifications like assets and literacy tests.

In fact, that's the whole purpose of the now-awkward electoral college: state legislatures choosing knowledgeable electors to vote for president/VP.

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This an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think there's something to that.

My state political party operates on a caucus system, where I don't directly vote for local, state, or federal candidates in the primary (ironically, president is the exception to this); rather I elect a district representative to attend the convention, speak with the candidates, and vote the best one. I don't have time/choose not to have time to do this same level of diligence, and like in many other areas, I am happy to delegate it to one of my known, trusted neighbors. I believe it produces a better, more intelligent, less hysterical media outcome.

This is also why I'm not necessarily against non-pathological obstacles in voting. In 2018, my county did a (inexpensive) mail-only election. I wouldn't be surprised is the deadlines, etc. proved to be an obstacle. But....is it really that bad to have that small hoop for people to participate? I don't think so.

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P.S. You know poll taxes aren't taxes at polling stations, right? It just means "flat (non-proportional) tax".

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#123

Post by thekyle » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

mcny wrote: post #109

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully we get self driving cars you don't need a license for ASAP, so the expectation of every adult constantly carrying around an ID decreases.

> Hopefully we get self driving cars you don't need a license for ASAP, so the expectation of every adult constantly carrying around an ID decreases. I'm sorry but how would I get into a self-driving car? I'd probably not own one. I'd ride in a Waymo, Uber, or some other provider's self-driving car which would mean they'd need to be authenticate who I am and check to see if I am authorized to get in the car...

> authorized to get in the car

I don't know what you mean. In the U.S. you don't need a drivers license to ride in a car. Uber does not currently require any state issued ID for riders and I'm not sure why they would in the future.

You might need the Uber app but that isn't tied to any government ID.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#124

Post by paulddraper » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

ColanR wrote: post #114

waffle_ss wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm the 1700's in America were the era of needing to have land ownership to vote (more than half of white men couldn't vote), poll taxes, exclusion of blacks, native Americans, and women, religious tests, and so on. The 15th Amendment that changed some of that wasn't even passed until 1870. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St...

However, that's orthogonal to the issue; documentation of your right to vote is not one of the requirements of possessing that right. (as parent said, "A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation.") It is a dramatic improvement that the people with the right to vote has been expanded since the 1700s, but what you said doesn't actually speak against the basic idea that documentation is not relevant t…

How is it irrelevant to their point? Property deeds and literacy tests are documentation, yes?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#125

Post by phendrenad2 » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:46 AM UTC

Interesting historical tidbit: Many libraries had very lax requirements for library cards pre-9/11. The PATRIOT Act forced them to collect more information. https://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000060501&fullsite=true

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#126

Post by mieseratte » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:46 AM UTC

ColanR wrote: post #114

waffle_ss wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm the 1700's in America were the era of needing to have land ownership to vote (more than half of white men couldn't vote), poll taxes, exclusion of blacks, native Americans, and women, religious tests, and so on. The 15th Amendment that changed some of that wasn't even passed until 1870. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_St...

However, that's orthogonal to the issue; documentation of your right to vote is not one of the requirements of possessing that right. (as parent said, "A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation.") It is a dramatic improvement that the people with the right to vote has been expanded since the 1700s, but what you said doesn't actually speak against the basic idea that documentation is not relevant t…

> However, that's orthogonal to the issue; documentation of your right to vote is not one of the requirements of possessing that right.

According to whom exactly?

As others have pointed out in this discussion, that's not how the US system was designed. There is no inalienable right to vote.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#127

Post by seventytwo » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

Operyl wrote: post #26

sneak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about purchasing a firearm?

How was that relevant to the conversation?

It’s not, but people who don’t like the idea of others voting like to obfuscate the conversation with red herrings and non sequiturs.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#128

Post by dfeojm-zlib » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #105

elliekelly wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I thought, this makes no sense. Why would the Patriot Act care more about who's getting a library card than incorporating when the dirty money is obviously flowing through the entity? And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. ID not just for the single corporator, but information about all of the offi…

> Why would the Patriot Act care more about who's getting a library card than incorporating when the dirty money is obviously flowing through the entity? Because the Patriot Act was about using terrorism as a pretext to shove through an authoritarian wishlist, much of which and previously been pushed unsuccessfully on other bases (rooting out Communism, the Drug War, etc.), rather than a rational focussed response to…

    SELECT * FROM PRIVATE_PERSONS WHERE CHECKOUT_BOOK IS LIKE "%Anarchist Cookbook%"

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#129

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:54 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #46

jdoliner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think voting should be limited to citizens of the country? Or that each person should only get 1 vote? If so that seems impossible to implement without requiring identification, if not that seems tantamount to infringing on people's right to vote, if someone can vote twice against me while I only get 1 vote because I'm following the rules then that means my vote effectively wasn't counted.

> Or that each person should only get 1 vote? What’s wrong with just dipping someone’s finger in ink?

Many districts vote over multiple weeks and/or offer absentee voting by mail.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#130

Post by edaemon » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:55 AM UTC

damq wrote: post #120

lutorm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is a constitutional right, forming a corporation or getting a library card is not.

Voting is only a Constitutional right for citizens. Hence the need to prove you're a citizen before voting.

Some citizens may be disenfranchised by the proof requirement; e.g. if ID is required but you can't afford to get an ID, you can't vote despite being a citizen.