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The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

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Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#171

Interesting historical tidbit: Many libraries had very lax requirements for library cards pre-9/11. The PATRIOT Act forced them to collect more information. https://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000060501&fullsite=true

Thanks I was wondering when it changed. I got all my library cards for years with no verification and used fake names on all of them.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A library is not loaning you property, it is a public good which you already paid for and have a right to use, the administrative overhead is for the convenience of all library users. A corporation's activities are unknowable but not being a real person it is not entitled to an assumption of good faith and there is no particular right to create new legal entities. We should definitely know who the beneficial owners o…

Other people also have a right to use. How do you prevent the tragedy of the commons without knowing who has what?

I'm not arguing against library cards. I'm showing how any rhetorical argument can be deployed with equal facility in the opposite direction.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If votes weren't anonymous, maybe. But they are.

Wait, you're assuming anonymity and the ability to "decide later if my vote was valid or not"? How would that work?

The process will vary by jurisdiction, but one approach is to identify if a voter has questionable eligibility when they arrive to the polling place, allow them to fill out a ballot, have them seal it in an envelope, and then label the envelope with the voter's information. You can then take the time to verify the votes validity before the envelope is reopened and the ballot is counted with the other votes. And just like with traditional ballots you can have the process observed by representatives of multiple candidates/political parties to ensure both transparency and that no vote is maliciously discarded.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#174
post #116

A library is loaning you property, usually collateral-free. A corporation is just a placeholder essentially for the activities it will perform, each of which will likely have far more stringent requirements than a library card.

This feels like post hoc rationalization. Read page 4 for an actual side by side comparison. You’ll see that all you really need to get a library card is present a form of identification, and perhaps a utility bill to prove your current address. Whereas for registering a corporation: ” No state requires any information about the person(s) who directly or indirectly own or control the company (often referred to as a b…

As the parent said, just setting up a Delaware corporation isn't going to be much protection for most criminal enterprises. If they want to, the ATF will get you for tobacco or gun smuggling whether you have Articles of Corporation or not.

And in the US, to continue that example, there are multiple agencies and thousands of pages of regulations overseeing tax accounting and campaign finance. Sure, tons of shady shit still happens... but not because the criminals happened to file as an LLC instead of as sole proprietors.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which you already paid for Unknowable without knowing who you actually are

Care to elaborate? Are you referring to taxpayers versus non-taxpayers, perhaps?

Not just taxpayers vs non-taxpayers, but WHERE you pay taxes. My taxes don’t pay for public libraries in other states or even other areas of my own state.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#176

A library is loaning you property, usually collateral-free. A corporation is just a placeholder essentially for the activities it will perform, each of which will likely have far more stringent requirements than a library card.

A library is not loaning you property, it is a public good which you already paid for and have a right to use, the administrative overhead is for the convenience of all library users. A corporation's activities are unknowable but not being a real person it is not entitled to an assumption of good faith and there is no particular right to create new legal entities. We should definitely know who the beneficial owners o…

I'm fairly certain most libraries would consider "loaning books" as one of the services they provide. The public good paid for by taxes is that they loan for free.

Part of the administrative overhead is making sure they get the books back.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#177
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your thoughts are not old school at all. The Constitution initially left it up to the states to determine who was eligible to vote and most states restricted voting to white, male, property owners - thus requiring a deed of property to register. NJ was pretty progressive allowing women to vote if they had property. Identification and Soviet papers are two completely different things. In the Soviet Union and in China…

What changed such that nobody knows anybody anymore, even in small towns?

There are way more people nowadays than there used to be. To make things harder, people can easily move from one place to other very far ones in a short notice, nearly instantly, and with no quarantine period when they will be distrusted by everyone.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A library is not loaning you property, it is a public good which you already paid for and have a right to use, the administrative overhead is for the convenience of all library users. A corporation's activities are unknowable but not being a real person it is not entitled to an assumption of good faith and there is no particular right to create new legal entities. We should definitely know who the beneficial owners o…

Other people also have a right to use. How do you prevent the tragedy of the commons without knowing who has what?

> How do you prevent the tragedy of the commons without knowing who has what?

Does this exact argument not apply to the "anonymous" corporations mentioned in the article?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#179
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your thoughts are not old school at all. The Constitution initially left it up to the states to determine who was eligible to vote and most states restricted voting to white, male, property owners - thus requiring a deed of property to register. NJ was pretty progressive allowing women to vote if they had property. Identification and Soviet papers are two completely different things. In the Soviet Union and in China…

What changed such that nobody knows anybody anymore, even in small towns?

Speed of transportation and speed of communication - when ideas and capital move at light speed instead of horse speed, society changes in correspondingly massive ways.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the contrary: There were only four known cases of voter fraud in the 2016 elections[0]; more stringent voting requirements suppresses voting, especially by poor, black and/or Latinx voters.[1] It certainly seems the case that more damage has been done to society via corporations to which no human person can be associated than by voter fraud. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/12/01/0-... [1] h…

I wish I could read the second link, but not interested in bypassing their income (and not interested enough to pay them :) ) I'd like to know their research. I had to sign up with my address, and I have to prove my identity when I vote. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. Even a low-tech ink mark used by some places seems perfectly fine. The law is full of tradeoffs, and I think proving you have voted only on…

Side topic on bypassing their income.

If you are not going to pay them, and not going to view it -- then they lost the income -- you might as well bypass the pay wall..

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