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The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

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Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#81

Post by xbmcuser »

manigandham wrote: post #62
reaperducer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised. In many of the states where I've lived (13 so far), all that was needed to vot…

Walking down the street and voting are not the same thing. ID's are common, the vast majority already have a passport or driver license. You need this much to even be employed so bringing it with you for an election is not an onerous requirement, it's actually completely reasonable. EDIT: It seems HN has rate-limiting for comments now.

In most countries where an id is a requirement for voting they have systems in place where you can easily get a national id card. In the US Republicans make it as hard as possible for poor people to get an id then are asking to make it mandatory as they are aware most poor people don't vote for them. If they want to enforce id checking for voting then they need to make sure people can easily get an id.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#82

Post by foreach9885 »

tptacek wrote: post #65
foreach9885 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until we can authenticate voters, elections are invalid by default. How would you even prove that fraud is NOT happening, when many US states are essentially on the honor system? In California, I can register to vote from a Russian IP address without any form of ID or proof of residence. It's even easier than getting food stamps. Let me know if you want me to dig up proof for you.

In fact, California voter registration requires both identification and proof of residency. Please do provide the proof you're referring to.

How do you think homeless vote then? You are actually allowed to just list a park or street corner as your "home address" when registering to vote. No effort will be made to validate this; it is on the honor system.

> It is recommended homeless registrants list a shelter address as their voting address where they could receive mail. Alternatively, homeless registrants may denote a street corner or a park as their residence, in lieu of a traditional home address. The federal voter registration form and many state forms provide a space for this purpose.

[1]: http://nationalhomeless.org/campaigns/voting/

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#83

Post by lutorm »

souprock wrote: post #52
Operyl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was that relevant to the conversation?

jdoliner's comment: voting should require ID stricter than library/corporation lutorm's comment: "Voting is a constitutional right" (implying that is isn't OK to require an ID) sneak's comment: "purchasing a firearm" (clearly a constitutional right, so it isn't OK to require ID to purchase one???) That is perfectly relevant. What sneak's comment does is point out that lutorm's argument implies that we can't have an I…

Yeah the latter is the nail in the coffin for my argument when it comes to the United States of America. Many other countries do have the individual right to vote written into their constitutions, though.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#84

Post by zucker42 »

foreach9885 wrote: post #55
jakelazaroff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP isn't arguing against detecting voter fraud. They're arguing against making the registration process harder in order to prevent (basically nonexistent) voter fraud. The reason people in the U.S. are worried about voter fraud is that one side of the political spectrum is pushing the narrative — without any real evidence — that voter fraud is rampant. We shouldn't make it more difficult to vote in order to fix a mad…

Until we can authenticate voters, elections are invalid by default. How would you even prove that fraud is NOT happening, when many US states are essentially on the honor system? In California, I can register to vote from a Russian IP address without any form of ID or proof of residence. It's even easier than getting food stamps. Let me know if you want me to dig up proof for you.

Luckily, some people will get suspicious when you ask for the ballot to be sent to Moscow.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#85

Post by m463 »

jdoliner wrote: post #4

I don't see any particular reason why the identification process for a corporation should be more stringent than a library card. What is astonishing to me is that both are meaningfully more stringent than voting. In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vot...

I see voting as the sandbox/turf of politicians, with huge battles for all ground gain or lost.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#86

Post by microcolonel »

panic wrote: post #74
mc32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not unusual among modern democracies for voters to provide proof of identity. We’re (and the UK?) the outliers in that, so no, I think it’s unrelated to authoritarianism. It’s got more to do with ensuring integrity of votes. India, Mexico, Argentina, Germany, Taiwan, Brazil, Iceland, Costa Rica, etc, require it. Among Americans all major demographics show majority support for voter ID reqs.

Authoritarianism always claims to be about ensuring the integrity of something or other. The question is always: is that the right goal, and is the proposal really the best way to accomplish that goal? Making election day a national holiday, for example, would do more to allow citizens to accurately express their voting preferences than any removal of non-citizen votes could ever do.

I think it would probably be best if we did both: statutorily mandate that employees have an opportunity to vote, even if the polling stations are only open during working hours; and also require that voters show the kind of ID we ask for when somebody tries to purchase a beer or a pack of cigarettes.

Neither is a bad idea.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#87

Post by stonogo »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #43
stonogo wrote: post #8

This comparison is stupid. Corporate registration is explicitly public information. Librarians are notorious for the fervency with which they protect the personal information of library patrons.

If information is collected then it can be stolen. Even if it is not permanently (or even temporarily) stored.

Irrelevant, but even if I humor you: The PATRIOT act does not require libraries collect any more personal information than the government already has. The comparison is utterly meaningless.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#88

Post by johnpowell »

the_pwner224 wrote: post #57
dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #31

Here's an example of what you need for a Delaware C-corp: https://www.incnow.com/delaware-corporation/ - Name of the corporation - Name and address of the Registered Agent of the corporation (usually a mail forwarding service) - Statement of the type of business that the corporation will engage in - Number of shares of authorized stock that the corporation will issue - Par value of each share - Name and signature of…

In Chicago the only requirements are a photo ID with address, or a letter with your name and address + an ID with your photo and name. Enough to comply with the anti-PATRIOTic act. But if that weren't the case, having your name/address/photo seems like a reasonable prerequisite for loaning you materials for free - the system would be very easy to abuse otherwise.

They also want to know that you live in the area they serve since local taxes are paying for the library. I can get a library card in the town over. They just want 80 bucks a year for it.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#89

Post by mc32 »

flgb wrote: post #71
mc32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not unusual among modern democracies for voters to provide proof of identity. We’re (and the UK?) the outliers in that, so no, I think it’s unrelated to authoritarianism. It’s got more to do with ensuring integrity of votes. India, Mexico, Argentina, Germany, Taiwan, Brazil, Iceland, Costa Rica, etc, require it. Among Americans all major demographics show majority support for voter ID reqs.

Australia doesn’t require voter ID either. Voter ID is a vehicle for voter suppression (and generally called for by the politically conservative).

You’re right. I forgot Australia and NZ. Never the less even left leaning or liberal countries out there require ID to vote: Brazil (was left), Sweden, Spain, Greece (Syriza), but then you have truly poor countries with truly poor people who still pull it off, like The Gambia, Ukraine, Libya, etc. Ukraine and The Gambia are made up of many ethnicities and they manage to do it.

None the less, we're down the list at no. 26 when it comes to voter integrity[1]. This is from 2014, so it's not encumbered by today's politics.

Ahead of us: Norway, Germany, Netherlands, Iceland, Czech Republic, Austria, South Korea, Slovenia, Israel, Cyprus, Lithuania, Australia, Rwanda, Japan, Chile, Italy, Grenada, Malta, Argentina, Georgia and Mongolia.

All except Australia req. Voter ID.

I (and everyone else) needs to present ID for cold medicine. I don't see this being burdensome.

[1]https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2014/11/study-ranks-...

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#90

Post by mch82 »

This isn’t true.

Here are the instructions for incorporating in Delaware: https://corp.delaware.gov/howtoform/

A form an cover sheet are required. Plus, there is an obligation to submit an annual tax filing with lots of information.

Here is the online application for a library card in Orange County, CA: https://web.ocpl.org/n/LibraryCardApplication/

I’m sure things vary state by state, but I’ll leave that for others to comment.

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