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The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

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Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#51

Post by scott_paul »

jdoliner wrote: post #4

I don't see any particular reason why the identification process for a corporation should be more stringent than a library card. What is astonishing to me is that both are meaningfully more stringent than voting. In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vot...

I increasingly think the US should look into adopting something akin to Estonia's voting system. Perhaps with some added zero-knowledge proof layer so that it can be known that all votes were valid, but not exactly who voted which way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Estonia

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#52

Post by souprock »

Operyl wrote: post #26
sneak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about purchasing a firearm?

How was that relevant to the conversation?

jdoliner's comment: voting should require ID stricter than library/corporation

lutorm's comment: "Voting is a constitutional right" (implying that is isn't OK to require an ID)

sneak's comment: "purchasing a firearm" (clearly a constitutional right, so it isn't OK to require ID to purchase one???)

That is perfectly relevant. What sneak's comment does is point out that lutorm's argument implies that we can't have an ID requirement to purchase a firearm. Since this conclusion seems a little crazy, it suggests that lutorm's argument is no good.

I'll add that at least for presidents, the constitution only makes voting a right for 538 specific people. States are not required to let the rest of us participate. Voting is clearly not more of a constitutional right than firearms.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#53

Post by tptacek »

mc32 wrote: post #42
reaperducer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised. In many of the states where I've lived (13 so far), all that was needed to vot…

It’s not unusual among modern democracies for voters to provide proof of identity. We’re (and the UK?) the outliers in that, so no, I think it’s unrelated to authoritarianism. It’s got more to do with ensuring integrity of votes. India, Mexico, Argentina, Germany, Taiwan, Brazil, Iceland, Costa Rica, etc, require it. Among Americans all major demographics show majority support for voter ID reqs.

Other modern democracies have different traditions with respect to documentation; we don't have a national identity card either, nor do we require people to carry identification with them. Lots of voters, particularly elderly voters, don't have formal identification.

Instances of voter fraud in the US are vanishingly rare. It's a really dumb crime; stiff penalties, lots of legwork, and an infinitesimal likelihood of influencing outcomes.

I was a Cook County election judge in the last cycle and will be one during the next cycle as well. We don't require identification, though judges can challenge a check-in and ask for identification, and the vote will get cast provisionally if none is provided.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#54

Post by alasdair_ »

sneak wrote: post #15
lutorm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting is a constitutional right, forming a corporation or getting a library card is not.

What about purchasing a firearm?

Depends if you interpret the right to keep arms (i.e. not have them taken away) to equal the right to obtain arms in the first place.

An example: it’s legal to “keep” a pre-1986 machine gun but it’s not legal to obtain a new one for most people in the US.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#55

Post by foreach9885 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #33
souprock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty circular reasoning to argue against methods for detecting voter fraud on the basis that we haven't detected voter fraud. If there is voter fraud, it might go away if we got reliable detection. Fraud is less likely when being caught is certain, and it is far more likely when being caught is about as likely as getting hit by lightening. Even if there isn't voter fraud, the mere fact that people are worried…

GP isn't arguing against detecting voter fraud. They're arguing against making the registration process harder in order to prevent (basically nonexistent) voter fraud. The reason people in the U.S. are worried about voter fraud is that one side of the political spectrum is pushing the narrative — without any real evidence — that voter fraud is rampant. We shouldn't make it more difficult to vote in order to fix a mad…

Until we can authenticate voters, elections are invalid by default.

How would you even prove that fraud is NOT happening, when many US states are essentially on the honor system?

In California, I can register to vote from a Russian IP address without any form of ID or proof of residence. It's even easier than getting food stamps.

Let me know if you want me to dig up proof for you.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#56

Post by manigandham »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #33
souprock wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty circular reasoning to argue against methods for detecting voter fraud on the basis that we haven't detected voter fraud. If there is voter fraud, it might go away if we got reliable detection. Fraud is less likely when being caught is certain, and it is far more likely when being caught is about as likely as getting hit by lightening. Even if there isn't voter fraud, the mere fact that people are worried…

GP isn't arguing against detecting voter fraud. They're arguing against making the registration process harder in order to prevent (basically nonexistent) voter fraud. The reason people in the U.S. are worried about voter fraud is that one side of the political spectrum is pushing the narrative — without any real evidence — that voter fraud is rampant. We shouldn't make it more difficult to vote in order to fix a mad…

How do you know if its non-existent if you cant even measure it from lack of proper identification?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#57

Post by the_pwner224 »

dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #31

Here's an example of what you need for a Delaware C-corp: https://www.incnow.com/delaware-corporation/ - Name of the corporation - Name and address of the Registered Agent of the corporation (usually a mail forwarding service) - Statement of the type of business that the corporation will engage in - Number of shares of authorized stock that the corporation will issue - Par value of each share - Name and signature of…

In Chicago the only requirements are a photo ID with address, or a letter with your name and address + an ID with your photo and name.

Enough to comply with the anti-PATRIOTic act. But if that weren't the case, having your name/address/photo seems like a reasonable prerequisite for loaning you materials for free - the system would be very easy to abuse otherwise.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#58

Post by lurquer »

nostromo wrote: post #32
Operyl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was that relevant to the conversation?

He's pointing out that if one believes you should be able to vote without ID because it's a civil right, then you should also be able to buy a gun without ID because it's a civil right. My guess is that he or she is saying that it's reasonable in both cases to require ID.

You don’t need ID to buy a gun in the US. Private transactions are completely paper and record free. (Unless you are from some non-flyover state.)

It’s only when you sell guns as a dealer that you are required to get ID and whatnot from the purchaser. (Even then, there is no penalty for BUYING the gun without ID; the penalty attaches to the SELLER.)

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#59

Post by quartz »

Starting a business should be something anyone in the US can do without hiring lawyers and wading through complex paperwork.

In Massachusetts you can even download a fill-in-the-blank articles of organization and look up the filed articles for any existing company online if you want to see how others are doing it.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#60

Post by foreach9885 »

scott_paul wrote: post #51
jdoliner wrote: post #4

I don't see any particular reason why the identification process for a corporation should be more stringent than a library card. What is astonishing to me is that both are meaningfully more stringent than voting. In Minnesota for example, all one needs is another registered voter to vouch for them. https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vot...

I increasingly think the US should look into adopting something akin to Estonia's voting system. Perhaps with some added zero-knowledge proof layer so that it can be known that all votes were valid, but not exactly who voted which way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Estonia

Honestly, that is a great idea, but it would never happen. It would be called racist if not enough non-white people sign up for it. No matter how easy you make enrollment.
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