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Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

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Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#31

Post by hydroreadsstuff »

pulisse wrote: post #15
revscat wrote: post #4

This seems like the perfect time to panic. I just don’t see how we’re getting out of this alive.

> I just don’t see how we’re getting out of this alive. Even worst case predictions for climate change don't imply the human race will be threatened. But what we will see is massive geopolitical disruption as previously habitable regions become uninhabitable. What happens when coastal Myanmar is underwater or southern India experiences 130 degree days on a regular basis? Climate change is going to make itself felt ov…

Slightly off-topic: Is there data on how many people don’t put children into our world because of this?

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#32

Post by adrianN »

MiroF wrote: post #28
jorblumesea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "threatened". Sure, humans will continue to exist, we won't go extinct, at least not globally. But we're looking at local and possibly global societal collapse. If we're back 500 years in the past developmentally and technologically, that's a huge deal. Maybe even if you survive, can you go back to a world without vaccines, antibiotics and mass communication?

as a reminder, the original comment was "I don't see how we are getting out of this alive"

A lot of people will die due to climate change and the ensuing political instability.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#33

Post by bryanlarsen »

andrewstuart wrote: post #7

The biggest problem IMO is that people don't seem to be able grasp that governments simply cannot solve this. Only when there is that general understanding can people stop focusing on government as the path to solving this. Unfortunately however almost everyone focuses on government and elections which is simply wasting more time.

It's impossible for individuals to solve this problem. It's very difficult for governments to solve this problem.

Governments aren't very good at difficult problems, but it's not impossible, and we can't give up.

Note that we don't need universal agreement, check out Nordhaus' carbon club.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#34

Post by mikeash »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #12

IIRC there's around 7m of sea level rise tied up in Greenland ice, and it's already melting remarkably quickly. Now add the wildfires and it seems like it's escalating dangerously out of control. While a tipping point tips, government action is still conspicuously absent, and countries (well Russia and Canada mainly) are trying to nail their continental shelf claims in the Arctic for oil exploration.

We’re going straight from “we don’t really know if something is happening” to “it’s too late anyway so why bother” without going through the troublesome “we should try to stop this” phase.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#35

Post by thomasmeeks »

andrewstuart wrote: post #16
noja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are the only people who can enact laws to move large numbers of people as a group to act.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

Merely stating something does not make it so. Would you like to give some reasoning for your stance?

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#36

Post by majormajor »

andrewstuart wrote: post #16
noja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are the only people who can enact laws to move large numbers of people as a group to act.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

> The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

If you want to do that, you're gonna need to present some plausible alternatives... otherwise you're not truly "challenging" anything so much as saying "this is a belief you have that I will not provide any evidence to counter but merely point out."

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#37

Post by pizza »

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC.

The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities.

[0] https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-...

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#38

Post by prolepunk »

andrewstuart wrote: post #7

The biggest problem IMO is that people don't seem to be able grasp that governments simply cannot solve this. Only when there is that general understanding can people stop focusing on government as the path to solving this. Unfortunately however almost everyone focuses on government and elections which is simply wasting more time.

Governments can solve this.

Thus far governments have been unwilling to solve it. They need to be pressured though political activism and mass protests until the problem for them becomes too inconvenient to ignore.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#39

Post by newintellectual »

Two things. First, anybody ever think about why an ice covered body of land was called Greenland? Here's a clue, it used to be a lot warmer and green. This is nothing new. Ice was a disaster for the settlers of Greenland.

And this:

"Scientists already know that the Greenland ice sheet is melting. But the hidden heat source originating from deep inside the Earth partially responsible for that melting has been a mystery. Now, researchers have pinned down evidence of that heat, revealing yet another force pushing glaciers into the ocean."

https://www.newsweek.com/puzzling-heat-deep-inside-earth-mel...

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#40

Post by adrianN »

andrewstuart wrote: post #16
noja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are the only people who can enact laws to move large numbers of people as a group to act.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

What's your plan if, like in Germany, the government passes laws that make building new wind turbines nearly impossible? Violent revolution?
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