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The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

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Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#181

Post by jessaustin »

r3bl wrote: post #161
jessaustin wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't pretend your opinion is any more valuable than an opinion of any of the other 27 members. I'm an outsider on this, but I could imagine this as an effective quote to replay in any "leave" campaign. Can we really imagine UK (or Germany) ever being relegated to having only the influence of e.g. Slovenia?

Countries don't have direct representation, political blocs do. Each country picks its own members (at minimum, six of them in the European Parliament), those members congregate into political blocs, those blocs make proposals, build a majority within EUs regulatory bodies, and adopt changes. The difference between Germany and the UK is that German parties recognize this process and follow it. UK's (right-wing) parti…

Since I don't live in California or Texas anymore, and didn't really identify with their priorities when I did, I don't "think that the electoral college in the US is terrible". Echoing your sentiments, the large states are not in a "privileged position" even if they sometimes think they should be. The electoral college, and federalism in general, makes the system more resilient and robust. (Not that this is an unalloyed benefit: this resilient and robust system does some terrible things.)

I don't share your gleefully grim expectations about UK's economic outlook. Sure, EU customs will be an issue. Making it too big an issue doesn't seem to be in anyone's interest, however. I can't imagine that e.g. Ireland want to hurt their own economy through any sort of "work to rule" policy. I can think of one EU member as important to the overall European economy as UK is (and it ain't France).

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#182

Post by Lio »

r3bl wrote: post #161
jessaustin wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't pretend your opinion is any more valuable than an opinion of any of the other 27 members. I'm an outsider on this, but I could imagine this as an effective quote to replay in any "leave" campaign. Can we really imagine UK (or Germany) ever being relegated to having only the influence of e.g. Slovenia?

Countries don't have direct representation, political blocs do. Each country picks its own members (at minimum, six of them in the European Parliament), those members congregate into political blocs, those blocs make proposals, build a majority within EUs regulatory bodies, and adopt changes. The difference between Germany and the UK is that German parties recognize this process and follow it. UK's (right-wing) parti…

You do realise that UK won't be the only looser in Brexit don't you?

To use a bit of metaphor, we, the UK, are definitely shooting ourselves in the foot but we're doing it inside a metal box with the other member states. We'll loose a foot for sure but when the bullet starts ricocheting it's going to hit all of us sooner or later. Our economies are entwined.

There are no winners in a more fragmented world.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#183

Post by bpye »

cat199 wrote: post #135
hestefisk wrote: post #17

As a Danish citizen I’m deeply concerned about this and am strongly considering an FoIA request and lawsuit for lack of disclosure... if this is really true.

> FoIA honest question: Does this exist in EU or UK?

This very much exists in the UK [1] - I cannot speak for the EU as a whole.

[1] - https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#185

Post by refurb »

swebs wrote: post #146
vinay427 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but it's worth mentioning that unlike the US and perhaps Ireland, countries in the Schengen area are required to issue passports containing fingerprint data, though most (all?) do not have a centralized database of citizens' fingerprints. The Netherlands planned to create a centralized store but it seems to face public opposition.

I'm pretty sure modern USA passports require fingerprint data. They at least have the pokeball symbol signaling that it contains biometrics.

There is no requirement to provide fingerprints for a US passport.

The only way I could see a US passport containing fingerprint data is if you were naturalized, but even then, it would require USCIS/USCBP to actually share that data with the State Department.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#186

Post by Majromax »

Silhouette wrote: post #178
emn13 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe. The future of the EU isn't safe beyond all doubt, so there's a risk this'll turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy of EU doom. i.e. Despite the shock of brexit causing EU support to rise pretty much everywhere (IIRC including in the UK, but I'm not sure on that one), most italians are still decidedly negative (which is relevant because post-brexit Italy would be the #3 EU economy). If Brexit were to be fol…

The future of the EU isn't safe beyond all doubt, so there's a risk this'll turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy of EU doom. There is certainly more potential downside than a lot of people seem to realise. The EU27 member states are not going to be affected in some uniform way by Brexit, particularly if we get the no-deal version without any sort of overall orderly transition. Those states that are particularly expos…

> This is why I find the Irish government's strategy puzzling: they continue to insist on a measure that has been a proven deal-breaker for an orderly withdrawal,

I don't think the Republic of Ireland has a good alternative. If they accept a hard border, then they suffer some of the worst no-deal effects anyway. If they accept customs checks between the Republic of Ireland and the continent (effectively putting them alone in a customs union with the UK), then the effects might be worse.

Really, getting the remainder of the EU to agree to this is an important victory for them. Under different circumstances, the continent could have thrown Ireland under the proverbial bus for the sake of a deal.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#187

Post by miahi »

ptaipale wrote: post #166
dangerface wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data does exist, and they are and have been collating it into one super database according to the article pknight posted. So I go back to my argument: > So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak?

You claim the data does exist - but where did it come from? There has been no program to forcibly collect fingerprints of all EU citizens. There is some biometric data collected for Schengen passports, but not even close to all people even have a passport. And if you claim my biometric passport fingerprints are in that DB, you are claiming that the police in my country has performed a massive illegal data handover. I…

For most countries, biometric passport data is only stored inside the passport's chip and not in a (national or otherwise) database. It's to be used by border control (of other countries) to compare the person presenting the passport with the (signed) data.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#188

Post by dillonmckay »

miahi wrote: post #129
dangerface wrote: post #116

> UK made illegal copies of classified personal information from a database reserved for members of the passport-free Schengen travel zone. The UK is not in the Schengen travel zone and had no right to be accessing the data or sharing it with other foreign powers. The problem is that too much power is collected in one place that encourages bad actors to weaken security so that they can later do a grab and dash with "…

Other countries that are not in the Schengen area do have access to the SIS. Their access rights were given by them signing various agreements (the status is quite complex, you should check the SA status[1] for more details). Yes, the title should be millions. Of mostly missing or wanted persons or lost passport and national IDs. Not sure how you would propose to ensure the security of a zone without a massive databa…

Do you think they have both a blacklist and a whitelist?

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#189

Post by ddebernardy »

an_ko wrote: post #11

Anyone have a less sensationalist primary source link? I'd like to see backed up facts, not outrage bait.

The tweet is the primary source. See who signed the letter.

The story referenced in the first point is:

https://euobserver.com/justice/145530

The second point raises a non-answer by the EC that led to the EP letter and the tweet.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#190

Post by miahi »

dillonmckay wrote: post #188
miahi wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries that are not in the Schengen area do have access to the SIS. Their access rights were given by them signing various agreements (the status is quite complex, you should check the SA status[1] for more details). Yes, the title should be millions. Of mostly missing or wanted persons or lost passport and national IDs. Not sure how you would propose to ensure the security of a zone without a massive databa…

Do you think they have both a blacklist and a whitelist?

The SIS database is 100% blacklist - people who should be stopped at the border, arrested, reported or followed, objects that should be seized (like stolen cars), objects that prompt for more inquiries (like stolen/lost passports).

Source: worked on SIS

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