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The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

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Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#161
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if the EU has 28 members, none of which should have an authoritative say in any of the things the bloc does. Want something changed? Build a support within a bloc. Don't pretend your opinion is any more valuable than an opinion of any of the other 27 members.

Don't pretend your opinion is any more valuable than an opinion of any of the other 27 members. I'm an outsider on this, but I could imagine this as an effective quote to replay in any "leave" campaign. Can we really imagine UK (or Germany) ever being relegated to having only the influence of e.g. Slovenia?

Countries don't have direct representation, political blocs do.

Each country picks its own members (at minimum, six of them in the European Parliament), those members congregate into political blocs, those blocs make proposals, build a majority within EUs regulatory bodies, and adopt changes.

The difference between Germany and the UK is that German parties recognize this process and follow it. UK's (right-wing) parties, on the other hand, go on a tantrum locally whenever something doesn't go their way on an EU level, because they believe they're in a privileged position and that their vote means more within the EU. It doesn't.

My aim isn't to convince "leave" campaign that they should stay. On the contrary, I agree with the comment that said good riddance. Their tantrums stopped the progress of the EU far too many times.

If you think that the electoral college in the US is terrible, please, look up how Boris Johnson got to the position of the Prime Minister. The process was so undemocratic than it can't be considered anything but a complete joke. Brexit will finally happen, EU will move forward, and we'll all sit back and watch the UK's economy crash and burn. In over two years, they haven't even figured out what Brexit actually means, so the thoughts of them figuring it out within the next four months is laughable at best. There's not gonna be enough popcorns in the world for that shitshow.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#162
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to mention that eu+us+uk does not equal the so-called '1st world' in it's entirety (see also: canada, japan), and also that there is some notion of a '2nd world' as well.

The confusion stems from the fact that most people perceive it as a "measure of economic development", while in fact it's political cold war terminology: First world = US + close allies Second world = USSR + close allies Third world = Everybody else

Switzerland was third world under this definition?

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#163
post #121
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any positive may come out of this debacle, it's to set a precedent that leaving the EU is a bad idea.

Well, maybe. The future of the EU isn't safe beyond all doubt, so there's a risk this'll turn into a self-fulfilling prophesy of EU doom. i.e. Despite the shock of brexit causing EU support to rise pretty much everywhere (IIRC including in the UK, but I'm not sure on that one), most italians are still decidedly negative (which is relevant because post-brexit Italy would be the #3 EU economy). If Brexit were to be fol…

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Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#164
Reading the comments in this thread and others, it seems to me that a lot of people want to argue about how many canaries have to die before the threat to the miners is taken seriously.

That any of the Schengen information made it to the US at all is a dead canary.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That is not what I wrote, nor is it what I implied. I simply mean that the claim about fingerprints of 350 M EU citizens copied cannot be true.

The EU has been collecting fingerprints since 2004, they do have that data. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-fingerprints/fingerprin...

That link does not describe the EU collecting fingerprints it just reports that their is an EU requirement for passports to contain biometic data. The EU do not collect or store that data national governments do.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#166
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they seem to be saying is not that the data hasn't leaked, but that it likely does not even exist. If that's true, a headline of "X has been copied" would be wrong if X didn't exist.

The data does exist, and they are and have been collating it into one super database according to the article pknight posted. So I go back to my argument: > So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak?

You claim the data does exist - but where did it come from? There has been no program to forcibly collect fingerprints of all EU citizens. There is some biometric data collected for Schengen passports, but not even close to all people even have a passport. And if you claim my biometric passport fingerprints are in that DB, you are claiming that the police in my country has performed a massive illegal data handover. If you have evidence of that, give it - heads will roll.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That is not what I wrote, nor is it what I implied. I simply mean that the claim about fingerprints of 350 M EU citizens copied cannot be true.

The EU has been collecting fingerprints since 2004, they do have that data. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-fingerprints/fingerprin...

No. That link does not say so. Biometric passport data is collected by national goverments, not EU.

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#168
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The confusion stems from the fact that most people perceive it as a "measure of economic development", while in fact it's political cold war terminology: First world = US + close allies Second world = USSR + close allies Third world = Everybody else

Switzerland was third world under this definition?

Yes, it was.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cold_War_alliances...

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#169

> UK made illegal copies of classified personal information from a database reserved for members of the passport-free Schengen travel zone. The UK is not in the Schengen travel zone and had no right to be accessing the data or sharing it with other foreign powers. The problem is that too much power is collected in one place that encourages bad actors to weaken security so that they can later do a grab and dash with "…

The UK has even hacked the largest ISP of another EU member country (Belgium) without consequences. It is not the first time that a member of the 5 eyes alliance is caught red-handed...

Re: The UK authorities made illegal copies of the Schengen Information System

#170
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any positive may come out of this debacle, it's to set a precedent that leaving the EU is a bad idea.

Not necessarily a bad idea, unless you have other ideas as to which global power you will be under the influence of, or that your country can withstand such influences on its own. There is no denying it, the meddling in foreign affairs from the western point of view shows that the influence of global powers on individual countries is very possible and this can easily come back around to bite you if you're not part of…

> The UK will be fine on it's own, because they have always been under the influence of a greater global political power.

I'm assuming you mean the US there and ... I'm not convinced because when the UK asked the US for assistance with their Iran-seized ship recently, the US told them to go away. They had to go to the EU for assistance (hilariously.)

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