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“My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

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Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#171
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's fork the client and make it decentralized[1], and write an open source version of the server[2] so people can host their own instances! [1] https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Distributed-Git-Distributed-W... [2] https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org

I like Gitlab but that's not exactly what I have in mind, I think about something more similar to torrents. The problem with everyone having their own instance without discoverability & interoperability between them is that you lose most of the value of Github.

Secure Scuttlebutt's git-ssb is kind of this

https://git-ssb.celehner.com/%25n92DiQh7ietE%2BR%2BX%2FI403L...

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#172
post #6

During the Cold War, the primary thing that distinguished the US side from the USSR side was that, while speech by USSR people and people sympathetic to the USSR (like, say, CPUSA) was published in the US, publishing speech sympathetic to the US in the USSR would get you arrested. It seems like the US has become what the USSR was: companies who publish speech from people in Iran or Crimea are now violating the law by…

I don't think Noam Chomsky has ever been sympathetic to the USSR, he just said that the US was not much better than USSR. For example in that speach he clearly states that USSR was a a flawed totalitarian system from the start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06-XcAiswY4 (he has in fact also stated many times that his political views were indeed censored in the US)

>I don't think Noam Chomsky has ever been sympathetic to the USSR, he just said that the US was not much better than USSR.

Given what the USSR was, I think that qualifies as 'sympathetic'.

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#173
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the situation of freedom of speech in Russia is very bad right now, though not nearly as bad as under Stalin. I'm not sure what the modern equivalent would be of the Communist Party USA's 1948 platform; maybe propaganda in support of Daesh or something?

Imagine Stalin with modern internet surveillance capabilities

You may not have to imagine for much longer.

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any country would severely punish people who want to be part of another country.

I've never understood why this is true and considered ethical. If a part of your country wishes to govern themselves, or be governed by someone else, why should that be met with violence?

It is a complex system with many actors on different levels.

You can see it on several levels:

- People in power are interested to hold the power as long as they can, and that's why they suppress separatists movements

- Countries which allows such separations become weaker and don't survive, because separation is manipulatable process, and damage country's economy and power

- concept of ethics is very driven by government: they tell people that it is their land, and nobody can take it from them

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#175
post #168
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My stepgrandmother was part of the Communist Party USA and continued distributing their newspapers and trying to recruit people until she died. I don't want to softpedal the human-rights abuses that happened in the US, but in fact even the Smith Act prosecutions only imprisoned a dozen people — there was nothing like the gulags in the US (until the War on Drugs, anyway), and it was not difficult to find out the Sovie…

You're actually comparing Soviet-era gulags to US prisons? Have you actually looked into them?

Have you? Find it very hard to believe that there's such a disproportionate number of criminals in the US.

China is locking up huge numbers of Muslims simply for having a religion and it still comes no where near the number of Americans incarcerated today without even having faced trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St...

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venezuela is not fully-embargoed. The fully-embargoed countries are Crimea, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, and Syria.

This is quibbling over terminology. Venezuela is in a deep depression caused by USA sanctions. Moving them from one list to another would make no difference to the daily experience of the average Venezuelan. This lawyering also completely undercuts your original "nothing to see here; move along people!" argument.

US sanctions worsen the already bad economic situation but to claim the problem is caused by US sanctions is extremely misleading. We were already seeing severe shortages way before the 2014 sanctions (which were placed on individuals, anyway). The reasons are too complex to put in a short snippet.

Crimea and Venezuela are hard to compare. While there's the common point of having an authoritarian government, they're different in many other factors such as public support of the government, geography, pre-existing economy and timing and severity of the sanctions.

Though this is very true for both, I think:

> What these policies forget is a lot of general citizens don't have much choice over the regime that leads them. They are just often people doing their thing.

and from the POV of the authoritarian government on the sanctioned country it makes sense to double down upon receiving sanctions because the sanctioning country(ies) don't have a bigger stick than that (unless they resort to military aggression).

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you can see the difference between blocking someone from publishing Chomsky and forbidding US companies from "doing business" in those places. Meanwhile for decades I remember many software EULAs saying things vaguely equivalent to "don't use this software in Cuba", etc. That is what I would compare this to.

Github is essentially a public library for computer code, but they happen to make money. I'm not sure I can see the difference between publishing and "doing business" in this case.

They are a private company. They offer free services that make it feel that way but they are not.

We should be putting our collection of code in something else with a mission around those ideals.

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#178
post #6

During the Cold War, the primary thing that distinguished the US side from the USSR side was that, while speech by USSR people and people sympathetic to the USSR (like, say, CPUSA) was published in the US, publishing speech sympathetic to the US in the USSR would get you arrested. It seems like the US has become what the USSR was: companies who publish speech from people in Iran or Crimea are now violating the law by…

> It seems like the US has become what the USSR was

As somebody who actually lived in the USSR I call bullshit on this. There's a huge difference between arresting people for saying something the powers don't like and restricting business links to certain aggressive dictatorial regimes. True, many citizens of those regimes suffer twice - once because they live under a dictatorial regime and second time because of the effect of economic sanctions. And it is true that economic sanctions disrupt free flow of information and trade. They are a kind of warfare but one where people don't get killed - which is not good, all warfare is bad, but better than the other kind.

It is bad when there is a war between two countries. It is worse when the government wages war on its people, and that what happened in the USSR. It is nothing like what is happening in the US. Nowhere in the US you can be arrested or imprisoned for saying anything - including praising USSR, Russia, Putin, ayatollas, Hezbollah, whatever you like.

> The US doesn't yet have massive prison camp systems full of political dissidents

"Yet" is extremely disingenuous here - there's absolutely no indication US is anywhere close to have it, on the contrary, US has the strongest free speech laws among all developed countries, and the high courts consistently reject any attempt to change that. In fact, what I am hearing every day is how there's too much free speech and how it should be suppressed and restricted for my own good, lest I read something wrong and get offended.

> but then, for the first couple of decades, neither did the USSR.

Technically might be true, if you say reduce first couple of decades to first decade - Gulag started in 1929. But not because the bolsheviks were kind of heart - before, they just murdered whoever they considered the enemy of the people (or, in rare cases, kicked them out of the country). After Stalin came to power, he realized there's a lot of work to be done and he can't use the capitalist way of paying people for the work, and if he just keeps killing everybody there would be nobody left to do his grand projects. So he used the other way - put people in prison and force to work (of course, he still killed plenty but some were spared for prison camps). Even Soviet space program and nuclear program was done by people who were effectively prisoners (word to look for is "sharashka").

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#179
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with free speech - the sanctioned account was able to open an issue on GitHub complaining of the way their account had been handled. The account is the victim of a trade embargo, not a gag order.

Their Github Pages page was censored. They are unable to participate in the maintenance of an open source repository. This was done, according to Github, as a requirement to comply with the laws of its state. If that's not a free speech issue, there are no free speech issues.

You confuse trade war with censorship. I'll explain the difference. Censorship is based on content: if you can say "long live Communist Party" but can't say "long live Republican Party", that's censorship. Trade war is based on origin: if you are not allowed to do trade (business) or provide services to residents of certain place, regardless of the content or purpose, that's embargo.

> If that's not a free speech issue, there are no free speech issues.

There are plenty, when exclusion is based on the content. This is not one of them. That's why filing a First Amendment lawsuit against trade embargo wouldn't do you any good.

Re: “My GitHub account has been restricted due to US sanctions as I live in Crimea”

#180
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was done as a requirement to comply with the laws of the United States[1] and insisting it's a free speech issue does not make it so. The United States government has no obligation to care about the collateral silencing of non-citizen speech in a foreign country subject to economic sanctions. The government also has a mechanism where someone inadvertently impacted by sanctions can appeal to the Treasury Department…

> The United States government has no obligation to care about the collateral silencing of non-citizen speech in a foreign country subject to economic sanctions. Although it may not have a legal obligation under the current menu of precedents, I disagree that it has no obligation tout court. The real facts on the ground here are that a person's website was censored at the behest of the US Government. This is chilled…

Not every issue where speech is limited is an issue of free speech. If you're told that you can not write on my house's wall, it's about speech, but not issue of free speech because it's my house and I decide who writes on it. If a mafia boss is imprisoned for ordering a contract murder, it's not issue of free speech, because even though the order was spoken, the murder is the crime that is punished, not speech. If you are not allowed to talk in the movie theater while movie is screening, it is not an issue of free speech - it's the issue of it being not the right place to speak. If there's a trade embargo that prohibits providing services to nationals of Elbonia and an Elbonian can't publish her speech - it's not the issue of free speech because the issue here is the embargo, not the speech. Having "speech" somewhere in the picture does not automatically makes it an issue of free speech. The same speech would be easily published if produced by anybody else. There's no issue with the content of the speech.
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