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In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

arstechnica.com

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Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#161

Post by tclancy »

Scoundreller wrote: post #141
tclancy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, you want me to pay the local government for water under my land that they don't treat or pump for me? You're going to have to adjust some property laws in the US (and at least England and Canada I would guess) to do that.

I thought surface rights and water rights were already unbundled in a lot of US states. Rain barrels are/were illegal in a lot of US areas because you didn’t own the water that landed on your property.

Wait, what now? Read that out loud and consider the idea that rain waters my lawn for free regardless of whether I have a barrel.

Holy good God it’s not totally fabricated. https://www.truthorfiction.com/collecting-rainwater-is-illeg...

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#162

Post by beachy »

bilbo0s wrote: post #88
beachy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. My father in law lives in a town that has no water metering (and usually, but not always, plenty of water). In the summer he puts his sprinklers in 2 or 3 times a day, even when dire warnings are issued about water consumption. Human behavior is all about the impact on the back pocket (particularly if you are a pensioner).

Where does he live? Serious question. I'd be interested in whether or not his behavior is a function of living in an area drowning in fresh water sources? If he does not live in such an area, then I'm really interested in how the municipality is able to keep the price of water that low? That would seem to defy the rule of supply and demand in my mind.

He's not in the US, but in a town of 160K-odd people, with a very decent river running right through.

Water is indeed very cheap, but the main thing is that there's no metering. Metering is seen by some as taking away their rights, and possibly leading the elderly/poor to skimp on water and thus hygiene - so there is considerable resistance to water metering. It's not a sustainable position though (because of people like him :) and metering must arrive one day.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#163

Post by sitkack »

padobson wrote: post #133
stirfrykitty wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet companies build plants on the Great Lakes, hoover up all the water, filter it, bottle it, and sell it to the unsuspecting, who happily buy it. I never ever saw bottled water as a kid in Europe. It wasn't until I moved to the US where it appeared to be commonplace. When I went back home to England last year, they've got it in every supermarket I visited. Sad, really. I still just drink out of the tap here in Texas…

Yet companies build plants on the Great Lakes, hoover up all the water, filter it, bottle it, and sell it to the unsuspecting I can't speak for every state, but here in Michigan (The Great Lakes state!), companies like Nestle have to apply for a license that subjects them to regular inspections to make sure they're not over-burdening the local groundwater supply. They pump from wells on their own private land using t…

The aquifers they pump from definitely reach beyond their land. Your con-science shouldn't be so easily manipulated.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#164

Post by sitkack »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #90
azinman2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about the rest of the US, but in SF water pricing is tiered. A small amount costs x per gallon. A larger amount costs 2x per gallon. And even larger amount costs 4x per gallon, etc. Unfortunately the rich can still abuse this, as it’s not actually proportionate to income. I wish more public fees were, like speeding tickets, car registration costs, etc, so that rich/poor impact was more normalized. N.B. T…

Tiered pricing seems like a decent compromise. Scaled pricing is stupid. I didn't work my ass off climbing the ladder just to get screwed out of the same fraction of my money by the government as when I brought home a few hundred a week. If you want to cut the poor a break then make fees and fines tax deductible.

Ahhhh, I want a gold classism card as well. Climbing the ladder is a choice that the rest of shouldn't have to bear. Your choice, your price.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#165

Post by sitkack »

tclancy wrote: post #161
Scoundreller wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought surface rights and water rights were already unbundled in a lot of US states. Rain barrels are/were illegal in a lot of US areas because you didn’t own the water that landed on your property.

Wait, what now? Read that out loud and consider the idea that rain waters my lawn for free regardless of whether I have a barrel. Holy good God it’s not totally fabricated. https://www.truthorfiction.com/collecting-rainwater-is-illeg...

Beneath your land is also a fiction, it takes hundreds of years to accumulate and stretches far beyond the boundaries of your land.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#166

Post by gonzo »

Haga wrote: post #85
madez wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It even shows why some aquifers may never replenish. The layer of the aquifer is not tightly compressed and can hold water. When the water is released and the layer starts to compress from the weight from above, its ability to hold water is permanently diminished.

Happens to Teheran and many Indian cities. Viewable via satellite.

Las Vegas has a lot of subsidence due to ground water use.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#167

Post by Gibbon1 »

gonzo wrote: post #166
Haga wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens to Teheran and many Indian cities. Viewable via satellite.

Las Vegas has a lot of subsidence due to ground water use.

In the Santa Clara valley. Used to be the water table was so high in a lot of places you could drill artesian wells. When orchard farms got going they pulled so much water that by the 19920's some places sunk 12 feet. The fix was irrigation systems and replenishment.

I read my great grandfathers diaries and water was a big deal in the 1880's. One spring after dry winter he had to slaughter all of his calves and the older dairy cows. Later that year his older brother shot himself in despair. Next year his sisters and younger brother went up to Oregon to live with relatives and never returned.

Water has been a big deal my whole life in California. That's unremarkable. What's new is it's becoming a big deal in a lot of places.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#168

Post by Gibbon1 »

sitkack wrote: post #165
tclancy wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what now? Read that out loud and consider the idea that rain waters my lawn for free regardless of whether I have a barrel. Holy good God it’s not totally fabricated. https://www.truthorfiction.com/collecting-rainwater-is-illeg...

Beneath your land is also a fiction, it takes hundreds of years to accumulate and stretches far beyond the boundaries of your land.

Yeah your house and property sits above a subterranean _lake_. You can't just pull water out of a lake as you please. You shouldm't be able to pull out ground water as you please either.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#169

Post by Gibbon1 »

ip26 wrote: post #107
tclancy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, you want me to pay the local government for water under my land that they don't treat or pump for me? You're going to have to adjust some property laws in the US (and at least England and Canada I would guess) to do that.

Look, it's not my pet project, I'm just pointing out that if we decided we needed to track groundwater usage for whatever reason- price, allocation, whatever- it could probably be reasonably done.

There is no reason at all you can't put a meter on a well. None. Everything to do that exists.

Re: In the US, wells being drilled ever deeper as groundwater vanishes

#170

Post by nootka »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #157
jedberg wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But wouldn't they want the futures market to have perfect information? So that the futures could be priced exactly right, which would mean the lowest possible price that counterbalances a down market perfectly? I assume the farmers aren't trying to make money from the futures, they're just trying to not lose money. Their profits come from actually growing food. The futures are just there in case something bad happens…

I'd venture farmers make half or more more of their money on futures markets. Argi-business is a global market and optimal prices for your commodities don't necessarily conform to your local conditions/crops/etc. I can't speak for all farmers, but my family owns a farm and the futures market is huge in it generating money. You can use the futures markets to hedge against bad crop yields, lock in profits for accountin…

Do you know of any good articles on this. I.E. futures for the small family-run farm?
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