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Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

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Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#151
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has advanced the advent of BEV by something like 10y. There are multiple statements by old car CEOs who admit that Tesla forced their hand to finally take electric cars seriously. So no, Tesla is not unimportant. At all.

Dieselgate did more in forcing companies to take electric cars than Tesl ever did.

What would these companies invest into if Tesla hadn’t proven long range BEVs to be viable? What could the public and policy makers point to when the old car companies keep stating that there are no current alternatives, that we have to wait another decade or two for their R&D projects to pan out?

Besides, I was replying to a post that said Tesla was unimportant. Well, I personally doubt it, but yeah maybe what VW did -braking the law and harming the health of millions- was even more important.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#152
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dieselgate did more in forcing companies to take electric cars than Tesl ever did.

What would these companies invest into if Tesla hadn’t proven long range BEVs to be viable? What could the public and policy makers point to when the old car companies keep stating that there are no current alternatives, that we have to wait another decade or two for their R&D projects to pan out? Besides, I was replying to a post that said Tesla was unimportant. Well, I personally doubt it, but yeah maybe what VW di…

I think Tesla 'proved' the viability of long range BEVs the same way Newton proved calculus to Liebniz (and I'm only being slightly hyperbolic). Some ideas/discoveries/technologies are more or less inevitable as the newly-existing but disparate building-blocks are there, waiting for a receptive mind to piece everything together and usually with a surprising level or synchrony.

Tesla didn't have any ground-breaking research on battery chemistry, or motor efficiency; they are among the first to packaged everything together after the underlying technology became mature enough, and managed to suck the air away from the other early competitors. If Tesla never existed, the car companies would still invest in electric vehicles.

Edit: I've just discovered that the founding of Tesla itself was inspired by the General Motors EV1 which was in production from 1996[1] and recalled in 2003.

1. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/873116351316938753

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you fall into the "Tesla is saving the world" superfan category. The problem is that they aren't, and as someone else said, the fans are just really annoying. I know you don't mean to come off that way, but even your defense of Elon and such in this thread comes off as a combination of "ends justify the means" and sheer sycophantry. Nobody likes that. It's not as bad as some, mind you. Reading Teslarati makes me f…

In no way I believe the ends justify the means. I also did not defend Elon in this thread. You are reading your own bias into my comments. Criticize Tesla for worker security conditions and hiring practices all you want. It is deserved and should be corrected. The jump from criticism to rooting for failure is the step I don't understand (1). I also do not understand the annoyance caused by praising the fact that Tesl…

I have a feeling that most critics used to be fans. Five years ago Elon was my favorite entrepreneur.

Today I think the limp wristed response to the $420 fraud is a black stain on the justice system.

I'd still prefer Tesla succeed of course, and there's an undeniable impact it's had. But any warm and fuzzy feeling I once had is very much over.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you fall into the "Tesla is saving the world" superfan category. The problem is that they aren't, and as someone else said, the fans are just really annoying. I know you don't mean to come off that way, but even your defense of Elon and such in this thread comes off as a combination of "ends justify the means" and sheer sycophantry. Nobody likes that. It's not as bad as some, mind you. Reading Teslarati makes me f…

In no way I believe the ends justify the means. I also did not defend Elon in this thread. You are reading your own bias into my comments. Criticize Tesla for worker security conditions and hiring practices all you want. It is deserved and should be corrected. The jump from criticism to rooting for failure is the step I don't understand (1). I also do not understand the annoyance caused by praising the fact that Tesl…

"In no way I believe the ends justify the means. I also did not defend Elon in this thread. You are reading your own bias into my comments. "

If you really really believe this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and your comments again.

You literally defended him, for example:

"Every CEO is a salesman. Anyone who believes every word of a salesman is a fool. I'd not paint it as Trump-style, bona fide lying. It's just inflating promises, or being overly optimistic. Par for the course."

As for the rest:

Numerous people have tried to help you understand in this thread, and your response has not really been to try to understand their perspective, but instead tell them why they are wrong, and how it must be everyone else.

If you really want to understand, people have tried to help as best they can.

Maybe, rather than immediately react, take a while and process it?

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#155

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

That question became much bigger than expected. It was an honest question from a point of ignorance, so maybe that’s why.

I got some interesting insight. One trend I noticed in the replies is that answers are tending away from the goal of car driving being part of daily life and trying to make that electric. Those who did touch on this, were of the opinion that Tesla was not doing anything new or essential in that area.

Instead, most criticism was targeted towards the negatives of Tesla without regards to the positive. Tesla driving the advent of electric-powered personal transportation was barely touched upon.

Overall, I’m of the opinion that the technical advances Tesla has made, the influence on the market and public thinking, outweighs the negatives.

One explanation I came up with myself for the hatred is the overriding positive optimism of Musk. I do think that his marketing is partially bluster and partially the way he sees the world. The latter perhaps is what people hate. And nerds are somehow predisposed, understandably, to be sceptical. There’s a direct conflict there.

If you’ve spent years working for Facebook or others, then it would be hard to accept that a much better way of spending your time is possible. Easier to think all tech companies are bad, than the idea that you’ve made the wrong choice. Especially when earning well.

I have no axe to grind for Musk. He’s said enough things to lose my respect. I think being on Twitter is unhealthy for him and he’s crossed many lines. I also think Tesla is net positive, and I still think the hatred of this community is irrational. I think everyone feeling that way about Tesla should take time out and imagine trying to explain how a world without Tesla would have been better.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. I don't follow the logic. The impact of a jet flying back and forth pales in comparison to the impact of switching vehicles away from fossils. You're comparing t…

Fun fact: Planes are efficient for long trips. According to “sustainable energy without the hot air”, you need three people in a gas car to beat the efficiency of flying on a long trip. It seems like driving to LA with one or two people in the car is less carbon efficient than flying. With an EV you’re probably good though.

I think those numbers are for passenger flights carrying large amounts of people, not private jets carrying very few.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#157
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would these companies invest into if Tesla hadn’t proven long range BEVs to be viable? What could the public and policy makers point to when the old car companies keep stating that there are no current alternatives, that we have to wait another decade or two for their R&D projects to pan out? Besides, I was replying to a post that said Tesla was unimportant. Well, I personally doubt it, but yeah maybe what VW di…

I think Tesla 'proved' the viability of long range BEVs the same way Newton proved calculus to Liebniz (and I'm only being slightly hyperbolic). Some ideas/discoveries/technologies are more or less inevitable as the newly-existing but disparate building-blocks are there, waiting for a receptive mind to piece everything together and usually with a surprising level or synchrony. Tesla didn't have any ground-breaking re…

I agree. BEVs are, I think, inevitable, and one person or company can only do very little to shift the timeline one way or another.

Which impact Tesla has had, if any, is impossible to measure. It's not even entirely clear that the impact was positive.

(Imagine that a large car company or well funded startup was contemplating a massive investment in BEVs to try and get a first mover advantage, but Tesla got there first, so they decided to invest in hybrids or a new range of SUVs instead. In this word, "but for" Tesla, BEVs might be even more widely adopted. Of course, we have no reason to think that's true, but then, we have no reason to think that, "but for" Tesla, nobody would have done anything with EVs for another 10 years either, and that doesn't stop people from wildly speculating...)

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no way I believe the ends justify the means. I also did not defend Elon in this thread. You are reading your own bias into my comments. Criticize Tesla for worker security conditions and hiring practices all you want. It is deserved and should be corrected. The jump from criticism to rooting for failure is the step I don't understand (1). I also do not understand the annoyance caused by praising the fact that Tesl…

"In no way I believe the ends justify the means. I also did not defend Elon in this thread. You are reading your own bias into my comments. " If you really really believe this, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and your comments again. You literally defended him, for example: "Every CEO is a salesman. Anyone who believes every word of a salesman is a fool. I'd not paint it as Trump-style, bona fide lying.…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. The switch to EVs has more to do with Obama than Tesla. He pushed through many of the incentives that made Tesla possible.

> If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. I don't follow the logic. The impact of a jet flying back and forth pales in comparison to the impact of switching vehicles away from fossils. You're comparing t…

I follow your argument and support what you say.

There are always going to be critics who parrot idiotic points which you're having to refute, even among the "tech literate".

Would the car industry be as far along as it is today in EVs without Tesla? hard to say, I would say probably not. Toyota has been actively shunning EVs (hybrids don't count) and now still insisting on most of its energy into hydrogen fuel cells and BMW just kicked out its CEO for, among other things, stalling on EV development for so long.

Do I prefer being in a world where we have a Tesla? hell yes.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i think we might both be right No, you claimed other car companies won't have over-the-air software updates which is false. You claimed Bosch controls automative software which is also false. Bosch also makes use of a lot of open source software: https://oss.bosch-cm.com/

yes i amended my claim after reading the article about auto-Linux(i didn't know about it thanks by the way), but i checked out the Bosch oss and its not what i would call useful maybe i need to look into it a bit more, From what i have seen so far the license disclosure is out of date for few vendors ie, not yet updated since jan'18 , package disclosure show there may be some vulnerable outdated packages on the platf…

Here are examples of the software for some upcoming cars. Prove that Bosch "controls" the software for these cars:

- Mercedes EQC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JTew1D5Tk8

- Audi e-tron GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNw15W_EK8

- Honda e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEKq8jmckz0

- Volkswagen ID.3: https://www.engadget.com/2019/07/14/vw-id-3-interior-reveale...

If you can't prove it then simply admit you don't know what you're talking about.

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