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Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

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Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#131

Post by krapp »

maxheadroom wrote: post #125
krapp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>..but isn't the recourse that society has agreed-upon the very same lawsuit that is going on? >Is this not adequate? Humans are emotional and social beings, and we do not (nor should we want to) live in a society in which the proceedings of law, when found to be appropriate to remedy some social offense, become the only permitted form of public expression relative to it. It's perfectly reasonable to find Elon Musk t…

> Humans are emotional and social beings, and we do not (nor should we want to) live in a society in which the proceedings of law, when found to be appropriate to remedy some social offense, become the only permitted form of public expression relative to it. What does the form of public expression hope to achieve if the recourse is adequate? Emotional release? Were it that it was you that was directly wronged, I coul…

>In other words, using your statement, there is some assumed emotional or social end-goal of the behaviour is there not? Isn't that n+1 from the recourse already defined from society?

Society is not an algorithm whose purpose is to derive formal logical proofs of type "recourse" for any particular set of inputs. There is no n+1, nor is there necessarily an emotional or social end-goal.

>The behaviour is designed to illicit something, is it not? Otherwise, why would you do it at all?

Most people don't orchestrate their emotions in order to elicit a specific response. People find Elon Musk to be an asshole because he acts like an asshole, they find his behavior objectionable because they object to his behavior. There need be no more complexity to the matter than that.

>At what point would he no longer be objectionable and/or for the behaviour to stop? His death?

And now the slippery slope argument... I don't see anyone calling for Elon's death, do you?

>Even if he profusely apologised, prostrated with guilt and remose today, wouldn't the behaviour still continue?

Maybe. But then again, he could also eat an infant on live television and people would still defend him, so in the end it all seems to even out.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#132

Post by vanattab »

Barrin92 wrote: post #73
randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

>Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? For me personally the treatment of their workers, their anti-unionisation efforts, and their misleading advertisement of the autopilot, together with Musks extremely off-putting public behaviour. And no I don't want spaceX to fail. >Why not save your hate for companies damaging democracy or workers rights, which seem like mor…

> and their misleading advertisement of the autopilot

This 100%. People have already died as a result of the marketing and more people are going to die going forward because they insisted calling a pretty good lane assist feature "autopilot".

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#133

Post by sangnoir »

FrojoS wrote: post #109
Lazare wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? My feeling is that the overwhelming majority of Tesla critics do not hate Tesla, and do not want Tesla to fail. Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company that gets far more press (positive and negative) than it deserves, and who respond by needling Tesla super-fans. The super fans, in turn, react by treating this as shocking, but it'…

Tesla has advanced the advent of BEV by something like 10y. There are multiple statements by old car CEOs who admit that Tesla forced their hand to finally take electric cars seriously. So no, Tesla is not unimportant. At all.

Dieselgate did more in forcing companies to take electric cars than Tesl ever did.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#134

Post by titojankowski »

sergiosgc wrote: post #129
gamblor956 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. The switch to EVs has more to do with Obama than Tesla. He pushed through many of the incentives that made Tesla possible.

> If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. I don't follow the logic. The impact of a jet flying back and forth pales in comparison to the impact of switching vehicles away from fossils. You're comparing t…

Fun fact: Planes are efficient for long trips. According to “sustainable energy without the hot air”, you need three people in a gas car to beat the efficiency of flying on a long trip. It seems like driving to LA with one or two people in the car is less carbon efficient than flying. With an EV you’re probably good though.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#135

Post by rchaud »

saiya-jin wrote: post #45
Robotbeat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics would be more valuable than a list of titles. How many people have titles such as “president” or “Vice President”? How does this compare to churn at other companies, statistically?

yeah if you look at banking, people with titles like Vice president or Director leave all the time in relatively large numbers and it means nothing. C-suite is another story.

Tesla isn't a bank though. People have those titles in Finance because they have ownership over a particular product division, of which there are many. Consumer loans, corporate paper, fixed income, export-import financing, commodities trading, etc.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#136

Post by kentm »

gamblor956 wrote: post #128
vgoh1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to stop this culture of taking single sentences and vilifying people over them. People get tired, they get mad, temporarily confused, and can be good people 95% of the time, and a bit of a jerk other times. But the internet never forgets, so we as a people need to learn to forgive a bit more.

The pedo thing wasn't a single sentence. It was something Elon doubled down on. And repeated. Many times. He deserves to be vilified for trying to abuse his wealth to destroy a critic who was correct about his grandstanding during a crisis where people's lives were at stake.

It's a pattern with Elon. He found out Twitter critic's identity and called up their boss to try to get the guy fired. There's pretty credible allegations that he retaliates against whistleblowers as well.

Elon Musk is not a nice guy that has temporary blowups. He's vindictive.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#137

Post by [deleted] »

titojankowski wrote: post #134
sergiosgc wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. I don't follow the logic. The impact of a jet flying back and forth pales in comparison to the impact of switching vehicles away from fossils. You're comparing t…

Fun fact: Planes are efficient for long trips. According to “sustainable energy without the hot air”, you need three people in a gas car to beat the efficiency of flying on a long trip. It seems like driving to LA with one or two people in the car is less carbon efficient than flying. With an EV you’re probably good though.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#138

Post by ZeroGravitas »

sangnoir wrote: post #133
FrojoS wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has advanced the advent of BEV by something like 10y. There are multiple statements by old car CEOs who admit that Tesla forced their hand to finally take electric cars seriously. So no, Tesla is not unimportant. At all.

Dieselgate did more in forcing companies to take electric cars than Tesl ever did.

It's obviously hard to debate counterfactuals but I disagree. I think having a publicly successful alternative available made the impact of deiselgate much worse (for EV alternatives/better for the planet).

Just like Nuclear can get away with being "better than coal" but in the face of plummeting wind, solar and storage costs its drawbacks get looked at with new eyes.

Or in some parallel dimension where deiselgate led to trillions being wasted on hydrogen fuel celled vehicles which never replaced ICE.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#139

Post by Fins »

damon_c wrote: post #90
canada_dry wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the saying goes: 'when someone shows you who they really are, believe them'. The whole Thai cave rescue really showed who Elon Musk is: an incorrigible sociopath who's shortcomings make it difficult to celebrate any success he has.

Wait... I mean... he was kind of a jerk calling that guy a pedofile or whatever but, it was in the context of trying to save children wasn't it? Saving children is not normal sociopath territory?

Well, yeah. Except it was the guy who got called a pedophile for his trouble who was rescuing children, while Musk prancing around like an incompetent buffoon.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#140

Post by Fins »

Barrin92 wrote: post #73
randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

>Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? For me personally the treatment of their workers, their anti-unionisation efforts, and their misleading advertisement of the autopilot, together with Musks extremely off-putting public behaviour. And no I don't want spaceX to fail. >Why not save your hate for companies damaging democracy or workers rights, which seem like mor…

This. Tesla's carts do not work for me from practicality POV, but even if they released the most bestest car in the world, I will never, ever give Elon a red cent.
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