Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#151

Post by DuskStar » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

mempko wrote: post #139

DuskStar wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note "ice-free" is agreed to mean less than 1mil square kilometers. Agreed by who? You're trying to convince the deniers; giving them a massive out like that isn't tactically sound. "Oh their prediction was wrong so they changed the terms - climate change is a conspiracy and they're lying to our faces, can't you see?!?!"

Deniers have already switched from "It's not happening" to "It's happening but not man made". I'm seeing some already switch to "It's is man made, but it's a good thing! look, the world is getting greener!". I was going to say "It's an endless fight", but it isn't true. The fight will end when we all die. The horrors that are coming are unspeakable. During the famines in Russia during the civil-war starving mothers a…

> Famine is our future. In the USA, we are already locking up climate refugees, many children, in cages.

Funnily enough, I think this would actually be justified if climate change was going to cause imminent famine as you're suggesting. Given the choice between having the population of the US undergo a mild famine while to the south there's a famine beyond living memory (thanks to preventing climate-motivated migration) or having a famine beyond living memory here (thanks to the extra few hundred million mouths to feed), I know which one I would want the US government to choose. Helping refugees is a good thing, but the US government has an obligation to US citizens first and foremost. That's why we call it the United States government, and not the Mexican government, or Guatemalan government, or Honduran...

If you let too many people get into the lifeboat, you all drown.

I don't think that this is currently the case, though. Famine, when it comes, will affect the rest of the world far more than it will the US, Canada, and Russia. Food will become more expensive, but that will be due to exports rather than having more people than the land can feed - unlike almost every other country on the planet. Also barring further improvements in agriculture, of course.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#152

Post by cowmoo728 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC

Jach wrote: post #108

cowmoo728 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You joke (I think) but that's the path we're headed down. I'm fully expecting over a billion people to die within my lifetime from disease, malnutrition, and war spurred by climate change. It's foolish to think humans are so different from other life that we won't have a population crash after such rapid growth.

You should probably expect far more than that over your lifetime, but you can pretty much ignore malnutrition and war based on current data on causes of death. Already about 1.8 people die around the world every second from all causes. That's a billion people in less than 18 years. Half of those are for people over 70. About 80% of the deaths are people 50 years and older. 30% of all deaths are from cardiovascular di…

I could have been clearer, but I meant disease, malnutrition, and war, each spurred by climate change. Diseases like malaria and cholera that would have infected far fewer people if not for climate change. I'm thinking at least a billion plus people on top of the baseline rate of dying.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#153

Post by justin66 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

DuskStar wrote: post #84

saalweachter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disputed by the argument to consequences. "If climate change were happening, we would feel morally compelled to control our CO2 emissions; we don't want to control our CO2 emissions, therefore, climate change must not be happening."

"If climate change was happening and a massive problem, we would be morally obligated to advocate for the most effective methods of prevention - no matter their side effects. Nuclear, geoengineering, a carbon tax, making sure that Africa never industrializes - everything would be on the table. Since we don't like those solutions, climate change must not be that large of a problem." They aren't as bad as the Republica…

> If the Green New Deal is what they'd actually attempt to do, we're fucked.

No, we'd be making progress toward eliminating the growth of CO2 in the atmosphere, but making it slower than if they'd also embrace nuclear power.

> making sure that Africa never industrializes

Is that even part of the public debate? I mean, outside of Ron Paul's newsletters or something equally crazy?

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#154

Post by nielsbot » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

DuskStar wrote: post #84

saalweachter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disputed by the argument to consequences. "If climate change were happening, we would feel morally compelled to control our CO2 emissions; we don't want to control our CO2 emissions, therefore, climate change must not be happening."

"If climate change was happening and a massive problem, we would be morally obligated to advocate for the most effective methods of prevention - no matter their side effects. Nuclear, geoengineering, a carbon tax, making sure that Africa never industrializes - everything would be on the table. Since we don't like those solutions, climate change must not be that large of a problem." They aren't as bad as the Republica…

Attempting anything would be good

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#155

Post by markkanof » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

floatrock wrote: post #54

mettamage wrote: post #35

Pro tip for people who do not have airconditioning in their houses: 1. Go to universities 2. Go to co-working spaces Go to any place to flee the heat. I'm at my university right now, and I'm not even noticing it's as hot as it is since the airconditioning is doing an amazing job here.

I know you're in triage mode helping the immediately-affected get safe, but given the climate change undercurrents of all this, a statement like > I'm not even noticing it's as hot as it is since the airconditioning is doing an amazing job here. ...just leaves a frustrating and poor taste. What's powering all that air conditioning? It's not free. Get safe now, but don't lose sight that it's all inter-related.

Solar power?

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#156

Post by mindslight » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

mempko wrote: post #148

mindslight wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the personal benefit to believing in climate change? Now you get to feel bad about doing all the things you're going to do anyway? If you're going to go cognitive dissonance, you might as well go all-in. Lifestyle choices won't affect climate change as long as we keep fueling the machine that's chewing through the resources. "It's the economy, stupid" - the modern economy doesn't just depend on consuming many…

It's important because it frames what is happening now in a proper context. For example, in the USA, we are caging climate refugees, many children, in concentration camps. The media doesn't call them climate refugees, but that's what they are. If you understand this, then you understand the problem of people wanting to come is only going to get worse, and it's a moral imperative we let them come. It's also important…

Without a sense of action, that "proper context" just causes more mental anguish. I'm obviously writing from a place of accepting climate change - I'm just describing why denying it is so attractive. Lifestyle choices are intrinsically a social game - your ignorant climate change denier is likely very concerned about some different issue, and can't understand why you're ignoring it. There are so many problems, it's impossible to care about them all. Meanwhile the media encourages both ignorances, pitting them against one another to insulate the status quo.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#157

Post by user5994461 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

the_duke wrote: post #71

criddell wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If every disaster contains opportunities, what are they here? The obvious thing would be investing in green technology, but what else? Are HVAC equipment producers about to see a big uptick in sales?

Probably. Much of Europe hasn't really needed AC until now. It would often only have been really impactful for one or two weeks a year. Not really worth the investment. With temperatures climbing this high, and being maintained for longer periods, I recently bought my first mobile AC unit and am thinking about installing a permanent one after the summer.

Disagreed on that. It's more of a cultural thing really.

Having lived in south France, where temperature was always over 30C in summer for long period of time. There simply wasn't air conditioning in homes or offices. It's not that it isn't needed. It's just not there. If you want to change job to an office job with AC, good luck finding one.

You're just burning down in summer? being completely unproductive at work? People just live with it. Dress in short tshirt and drink a lot of water. There can be 50 employees asking to get a AC unit for the floor, doesn't matter, management is just nope.

It's evolving slowly as new office constructions have air conditioning and it's being retrofitted to some places.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#158

Post by nycip1 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

sctb wrote: post #111

nycip1 wrote: post #3

It will feel more like home to the current inhabitants of Paris

We've banned this throwaway as well as your main account.

Did you report me to Goolag too? Intelligent people left HN long time ago. I didn't even bother to create the throwaway from incognito to not taint the IP bc my "main" account is zero value: I quit HN half a year ago. For two reasons: the crowd became too stupid and for your political bias.

And my last bit of help to HN (although you don't need help with your billions, but I ran a bootstrapped company with 30+ million users): I not only quit posting but actually started shitposting because I was a productive community member, but my interactions with dang, heavy handed moderation of long time members actually angered me. I have the direct email of Daniel that Sam Altman gave me at some point, but I would rather respond here.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#159

Post by aaron_m04 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #149

kareeeem wrote: post #27

Climate change isn’t disputed by logic. It’s being disputed by the commercial entities that are protecting their $billion/$trillion industries who, otherwise, would have to face big losses. We all know the industries that are negatively impacting the environment. Their selfish stakeholders have managed to successfully create a reality distortion field of denial. This article, with lack of mentioning global warming, i…

It's pretty short-sighted to blame individual companies for providing what the people want: Affordable energy and transportation. You see what happens if you drive up prices for gasoline in France: People start rioting in the streets. If you had gasoline prices like that in the US, whole states would stop functioning. Also, most CO2 emissions are from countries where people are far poorer than in developed nations. A…

Yes! Any solution that screws over the bottom strata of society is no solution at all. We need their cooperation, and they won't be willing to help if we're shitting on them.

Re: Paris breaks all-time high temperature as deadly heat wave grips Europe

#160

Post by user5994461 » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 7:08 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #79

y4mi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about climate change with a co-worker on Monday. He still doesn't "believe" in it. "Nobody can know if it's happening" and "earth went through countless high and low temperature passes over the years. It's nothing special" It was a great example of today's reality we live in. It's truly an age of misinformation.

It's a funny kind of fooled by randomness, the argument that there is variation, so it wasn't caused by a specific effect. Suppose Iceland were to win the World Cup. Would people be saying that Iceland had spent a bunch of effort training players, or would they be saying that it's natural for different teams to win, and that it had to happen eventually? One major issue is that probability and statistics are very far…

>>> Suppose Iceland were to win the World Cup. Would people be saying that Iceland had spent a bunch of effort training players, or would they be saying that it's natural for different teams to win, and that it had to happen eventually?

People would be saying both and they would all be right. It takes both luck and training to win.