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Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

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Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#111

Post by sergiosgc »

gopher2 wrote: post #78
randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For me it's mostly that I don't like overly-promotional liars. And the "saving the world" schtick wears thin. Hate would be a strong word though.

Every CEO is a salesman. Anyone who believes every word of a salesman is a fool. I'd not paint it as Trump-style, bona fide lying. It's just inflating promises, or being overly optimistic. Par for the course.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#112

Post by Lazare »

vgoh1 wrote: post #91
canada_dry wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the saying goes: 'when someone shows you who they really are, believe them'. The whole Thai cave rescue really showed who Elon Musk is: an incorrigible sociopath who's shortcomings make it difficult to celebrate any success he has.

We need to stop this culture of taking single sentences and vilifying people over them. People get tired, they get mad, temporarily confused, and can be good people 95% of the time, and a bit of a jerk other times. But the internet never forgets, so we as a people need to learn to forgive a bit more.

I agree with you very, very strongly. However...

...I don't think that applies to Musk. This isn't the case of someone making an ill-considered tweet and getting eviscerated; this is about dozens and dozens of tweets, lawsuits, and interviews. Even so, if Musk took responsibility and said he was going to change, I'd certainly say we should give him every opportunity to do so. But to state the obvious, that hasn't happened.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#113

Post by ethbro »

sergiosgc wrote: post #110
Lazare wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? My feeling is that the overwhelming majority of Tesla critics do not hate Tesla, and do not want Tesla to fail. Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company that gets far more press (positive and negative) than it deserves, and who respond by needling Tesla super-fans. The super fans, in turn, react by treating this as shocking, but it'…

> Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company (...) > (...) > Tesla is just another car company making just another car. Definitely false. Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's (which crossed my radar recently due to layoffs). That may be small, for some definition of small, but it's definitely not "small, unimportant". I won't comment on poorly run -- a qualitative assessment that does not lead to a…

> [Tesla] Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's

And a bit less than 10% of Volkswagen or Toyota's.

With about 25% of their individual market caps.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#114

Post by ethbro »

Lazare wrote: post #112
vgoh1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to stop this culture of taking single sentences and vilifying people over them. People get tired, they get mad, temporarily confused, and can be good people 95% of the time, and a bit of a jerk other times. But the internet never forgets, so we as a people need to learn to forgive a bit more.

I agree with you very, very strongly. However... ...I don't think that applies to Musk. This isn't the case of someone making an ill-considered tweet and getting eviscerated; this is about dozens and dozens of tweets, lawsuits, and interviews. Even so, if Musk took responsibility and said he was going to change, I'd certainly say we should give him every opportunity to do so. But to state the obvious, that hasn't hap…

As much as he's an amazing engineer, it's demonstrably obvious by this point that Musk has severe social issues.

But then, so do a lot of us. We just aren't in the media spotlight.

On the flip side, it's indicative that the company Musk is more closely running is experiencing high turnover at senior levels. While the one he's not as involved with isn't.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#115

Post by Lazare »

sergiosgc wrote: post #110
Lazare wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? My feeling is that the overwhelming majority of Tesla critics do not hate Tesla, and do not want Tesla to fail. Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company that gets far more press (positive and negative) than it deserves, and who respond by needling Tesla super-fans. The super fans, in turn, react by treating this as shocking, but it'…

> Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company (...) > (...) > Tesla is just another car company making just another car. Definitely false. Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's (which crossed my radar recently due to layoffs). That may be small, for some definition of small, but it's definitely not "small, unimportant". I won't comment on poorly run -- a qualitative assessment that does not lead to a…

What you're not following, I think, is how little I care about cars and car companies. :) I don't care about Nissan, and I certainly don't care about a company a quarter their size. I care a little about Toyota because they're huge, but yes, small companies in industries that don't directly impact me are unimportant to me.

If I worked for a car company, I'd probably care, but I work for a tech company, so I don't.

> A Tesla may be a good car, a poor car, depending on who you ask. What it is definitely not is your average Volkswagen.

Okay, sure, it's twice that car a Volkswagen is, I trust you. But it's still a car.

Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#116

Post by clouddrover »

sergiosgc wrote: post #110
Lazare wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? My feeling is that the overwhelming majority of Tesla critics do not hate Tesla, and do not want Tesla to fail. Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company that gets far more press (positive and negative) than it deserves, and who respond by needling Tesla super-fans. The super fans, in turn, react by treating this as shocking, but it'…

> Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company (...) > (...) > Tesla is just another car company making just another car. Definitely false. Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's (which crossed my radar recently due to layoffs). That may be small, for some definition of small, but it's definitely not "small, unimportant". I won't comment on poorly run -- a qualitative assessment that does not lead to a…

> I'd challenge with a comparison to a well run startup in the automotive space, but there is none to compare it with.

Here are some car startups. Rivian has received the most investment of the three from companies like Amazon and Ford.

Rivian: https://products.rivian.com/

Sono Motors: https://sonomotors.com/

Lightyear: https://lightyear.one/

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#117

Post by elisharobinson »

clouddrover wrote: post #108
elisharobinson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i wouldnt count on it bosh has a choke hold on any innovation in the auto software space , at this point its no secret that auto software is in the state it is because of bosch choke hold on the whole market .

Volkswagen must have missed that particular memo: https://www.automotivelinux.org/announcements/2019/04/08/vol... https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-exec-kick-starts-b... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2020-volkswagen-id-3-elec... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8cHHNPRg-c

i think we might both be right tesla is a software company and others are catching up to the reality of cyber security in a connected world. they are adopting FOSS to their clossed source systems which isnt the same as building a stack around FOSS from the ground up which is a very software company thing to do.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#118

Post by Barrin92 »

vgoh1 wrote: post #91
canada_dry wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the saying goes: 'when someone shows you who they really are, believe them'. The whole Thai cave rescue really showed who Elon Musk is: an incorrigible sociopath who's shortcomings make it difficult to celebrate any success he has.

We need to stop this culture of taking single sentences and vilifying people over them. People get tired, they get mad, temporarily confused, and can be good people 95% of the time, and a bit of a jerk other times. But the internet never forgets, so we as a people need to learn to forgive a bit more.

accusing specific individuals of sexually abusing children isn't some mild misstep, it can ruin the lives of people and in a fair world their would be significant legal repercussions for billionaires who think they can drag someone through the mud on twitter, where Musk has millions of rabid followers. The idea that Musk is the victim in this reminds me of that "affluenza" case with the drunk rich kid years ago.

There are a lot of high profile CEOs and executives who have very stressful jobs, Musk isn't alone in this. The overwhelming majority of them manage to behave in completely sane, professional manner.

I assume Nadella and Pichai and Bezos all have a lot of work on their calendar, curiously enough they don't go on rants on twitter.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#119

Post by clouddrover »

elisharobinson wrote: post #117
clouddrover wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volkswagen must have missed that particular memo: https://www.automotivelinux.org/announcements/2019/04/08/vol... https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/vw-exec-kick-starts-b... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2020-volkswagen-id-3-elec... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8cHHNPRg-c

i think we might both be right tesla is a software company and others are catching up to the reality of cyber security in a connected world. they are adopting FOSS to their clossed source systems which isnt the same as building a stack around FOSS from the ground up which is a very software company thing to do.

> i think we might both be right

No, you claimed other car companies won't have over-the-air software updates which is false. You claimed Bosch controls automative software which is also false. Bosch also makes use of a lot of open source software:

https://oss.bosch-cm.com/

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#120

Post by neogodless »

breakintheweb wrote: post #105
neogodless wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If his role is important, this should read, "his role cannot be overstated." Just like people they don't care at all should be saying "I couldn't care less." It annoys me, too!

I would argue that overstated would be wrong because you could surely overstate his role. "He was the only reason Tesla existed, would be overstating his role. I think "his role shouldn't be understated" would be the correct phrase given the context.

I agree with you. Can I blame "first thing in the morning" posting on my error? Either way, I was incorrect and you have corrected me.
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