Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#81

Post by jonplackett » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 10:17 AM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #76

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For my part, it's just that Elon is the paramount example of what happens when the ROI plummets, and there's an amazing amount of investor cash floating around. You see it in history: the victorians built a ridiculously over-engineered, insanely extensive rail network. It didn't make any money, but at the time, there wasn't really anything else to invest in with a reasonable return rate. So everybody went in on the o…

Would just like to point out that in the UK we're still massively benefitting from the Victorian's far-sighted investments. They made stuff to last 100s of years. Bridges, railways, sewers, the house I'm living in. Thanks Victorians.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#82

Post by meowface » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 10:26 AM UTC

thomersch_ wrote: post #44

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For me it's because they do damage their workers' rights and their fans are so insufferable: The denial that they have quality issues, the repeated lies ("we are going to build a factory in weeks", while everyone knows that it will take years), the massive overvaluation. It's either you are on team Tesla and celebrating every of Elon's brainfarts or you are "big oil" that is trying to destroy them: Just look what hap…

The rest of your arguments are valid, but the CO2 credit system is working as intended there. That's why it's called a credit. That's a lot of money that gets to be directly invested into getting electric cars in the hands of more people, which is what will actually reduce emissions in the long run.

Fiat's emissions already happened; they can't turn back time. Selling the credits to them will result in a net decrease in emissions (assuming they don't spend all the money on flamethrowers or something). If they didn't sell the credits, Fiat still put out exactly the same amount of emissions, and would be likely to do so in the future even with the fines.

If you've helped accelerate climate change, you're supposed to buy credits to offset the damage you've caused. If you've helped mitigate climate change, you're supposed to sell the credits, because the credits are there in the first place to incentivize mitigating climate change. This system obviously isn't sufficient to halt climate change all by itself, and maybe there are some other reasons it's a bad system, but it seems like the credit system is working exactly as it was supposed to. At the very least, I don't see what Tesla's doing wrong when it comes to that particular area.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#83

Post by Wiretrip » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

adim86 wrote: post #56

thomersch_ wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's because they do damage their workers' rights and their fans are so insufferable: The denial that they have quality issues, the repeated lies ("we are going to build a factory in weeks", while everyone knows that it will take years), the massive overvaluation. It's either you are on team Tesla and celebrating every of Elon's brainfarts or you are "big oil" that is trying to destroy them: Just look what hap…

To be honest it really disturbs why people hate Tesla so much. Citing your reason for them being over-optimistic or over-promising, how else do people change the world? I don't mean this message as an attack but something to think about. These guys are working on something No one has EVER done in the history of mankind and we require them to stick to timetables and if they don't the punishment is we wish them failure…

"These guys are working on something No one has EVER done in the history of mankind" - erm people were making electric cars before ICE ones!

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#84

Post by Wiretrip » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 10:43 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #5

"Eberhard and Tarpenning were the original founders and incorporated Tesla, while Musk, Straubel and Wright joined in a Series A round later on. A lawsuit settlement agreed to by Eberhard and Tesla in September 2009 allows all five to call themselves founders.]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#cite_note-founders...

Just to add that Musk was not a Paypal founder either. In fact they absorbed his company and promptly fired him for making stupid decisions.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#85

Post by karambahh » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #76

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

For my part, it's just that Elon is the paramount example of what happens when the ROI plummets, and there's an amazing amount of investor cash floating around. You see it in history: the victorians built a ridiculously over-engineered, insanely extensive rail network. It didn't make any money, but at the time, there wasn't really anything else to invest in with a reasonable return rate. So everybody went in on the o…

Would you have sources about Toyota factories being less automated than their US competitors?

I've been told in the past that the key factor in Toyota success is their relationship with their suppliers. A top notch supply chain with just in time processes bundled with reasonable proxy stocks?

Would love to read about their automation level compared to US or EU companies

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#86

Post by canada_dry » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #73

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

>Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? For me personally the treatment of their workers, their anti-unionisation efforts, and their misleading advertisement of the autopilot, together with Musks extremely off-putting public behaviour. And no I don't want spaceX to fail. >Why not save your hate for companies damaging democracy or workers rights, which seem like mor…

Like the saying goes: 'when someone shows you who they really are, believe them'.

The whole Thai cave rescue really showed who Elon Musk is: an incorrigible sociopath who's shortcomings make it difficult to celebrate any success he has.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#87

Post by swarnie_ » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 11:03 AM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #22

Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? Elon can be an asshat sometimes, and he oversells and is over-optimistic. But even if the short sellers are right and Tesla will go bankrupt (which, btw, does not equal failure in many ways), why are so many people excited about that? Most tech giants of recent times have done things I would consider to have made the world a m…

Tesla - Ok cars but build quality is meh.

SpaceX - Love what they're doing.

Online fans of the two - insufferable cultists.

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#88

Post by swarnie_ » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 11:06 AM UTC

jonplackett wrote: post #80

"His role cannot be understated" Is this a typo or another think you crazy Americans do backwards, like "I can hardly wait"

They did some terrible things to our language after appropriating it but i'll give this one a pass.

"Its impossible to understate the importance of his role"

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#89

Post by pas » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 11:06 AM UTC

jonplackett wrote: post #80

"His role cannot be understated" Is this a typo or another think you crazy Americans do backwards, like "I can hardly wait"

It seems to mean that any statement that is relatively correct will have to detail the amazing performance of the person in question, exactly because it was so essential.

It was so good that no one can even try to badmouth it. (So it's a hyperbole of course.)

Re: Tesla co-founder and CTO JB Straubel stepping down

#90

Post by damon_c » Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 11:08 AM UTC

canada_dry wrote: post #86

Barrin92 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do some many people hate Tesla and want them to fail? Do they also want SpaceX to fail? For me personally the treatment of their workers, their anti-unionisation efforts, and their misleading advertisement of the autopilot, together with Musks extremely off-putting public behaviour. And no I don't want spaceX to fail. >Why not save your hate for companies damaging democracy or workers rights, which seem like mor…

Like the saying goes: 'when someone shows you who they really are, believe them'. The whole Thai cave rescue really showed who Elon Musk is: an incorrigible sociopath who's shortcomings make it difficult to celebrate any success he has.

Wait... I mean... he was kind of a jerk calling that guy a pedofile or whatever but, it was in the context of trying to save children wasn't it?

Saving children is not normal sociopath territory?