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How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

nytimes.com

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Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#181

Post by icebraining »

hyko wrote: post #145
devmunchies wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP is not a north star metric. GDP in the US is high and we have more suicides than ever. Many authoritarian (or especially populist) governments KNOW they will lower the GDP because by limiting low-wage labor immigration or focusing on nurturing a native culture or preserving the environment and not buying into a soulless consumerism/globalization they are creating a GDP cap. "growth for the sake of growth is the i…

It’s probably the closest thing we have to a North Star metric when evaluating a country. Everything that people desire is underpinned by GDP, and it isn’t particularly high anywhere on Earth.

> Everything that people desire is underpinned by GDP

That's a very extreme position. People desire more than what can be bought at the market.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/may/24/robert...

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#182

Post by sjg007 »

notadoc wrote: post #38

The USA is purging intellectuals as well through outrage culture, online mobs, and the weaponization of political correctness. Both the far right and far left do it routinely to their advantage, they both seem to think the ends justify the means. Whoever has the loudest megaphone and can effectively stir up a sufficiently large outrage mob is the winner. Facts do not matter, evidence can be deemed "offensive" and is…

I think this is a slight over exaggeration. Trump is an example where he seems to gain strength the more outrageous he is. Cops don’t have careers ruined by protests. Sarah Sanders lied repeatedly as does Kelly Anne Conway. Some celebrities have criminal complaints etc... the only real issue is that the left like to fall on their swords.. this is probably to set an example of doing the right thing but it’s probably short sighted.. so history will see how that plays out...

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#183

Post by chr1 »

tuvan wrote: post #142
chr1 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is an extension of a multi-national empire which had extreme levels of animosity between its nations, people who identified as non-turks were severely penalized in the past, and to this day allegations of having a non Turk grandparent is something that can be used against politicians. Armenian is still considered an offensive word in Turkey, (as is Turk in Armenia), so portraying Turkey as an idyllic multi-nat…

Yes, racism exists. Armenian, Greek etc are used as insults by racist people. This doesn’t mean that it is the general state of public. People like Trump use Mexican as an insult, that doesn’t change the fact that there are tons of people with Mexican roots that identify as American and are well respected by the non-racist majority of the nation. I don’t see how PKK is anything like American revolution. PKK isn’t rep…

Do you know of any cases where anyone in America called someone "Mexican" as an insult? Could someone file a lawsuit because he was called "Mexican"? I don't think so, and i don't think USA and Turkey are comparable.

PKK and Kurds want to have their own country, that's natural, every nation wants that, and if history have taken a bit different path Turks could be in the same situation. If there was free speech in Turkey and non-racists were really the overwhelming majority, then the people who go into PKK would simply try to hold a referendum for independence (like people in Scotland), and most likely would not get the majority vote (again like Scotland), but unfortunately Turkey still has a long way to go to get there.

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#184

Post by thendrill »

zwaps wrote: post #166
magduf wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like someone needs to organize some good, seaworthy boats to come pick these people up and take them someplace better, and help them get set up. After all, if they're intellectuals, they should be a huge asset to any country that takes them in. There's a reason we have the term "brain drain": countries that get the brains usually benefit greatly, while the countries losing them suffer economically.

I know you didnt mean this, but perhaps these people don't want to leave? Turkey is not a hellhole. Sure, it is a divided country, but it has a rich history and lots of beauty (I say that not being a Turk, nor being from Istanbul). Let's remember that the current position as a developing nation is historically rather new. There is a strong sense of nostalgia and, until recently, there was some realistic hope that Tur…

Two million Turkish citizens living in German would disagree.

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#186

Post by deogeo »

sgnelson wrote: post #117

Same thing has happened in Hungary https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/george-...

Amazing how a billionaire funding an institution with a self-admitted propaganda purpose is 'democracy', while elected officials trying to limit the influence of foreign capital is 'authoritarian'.

By that logic, limiting the influence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute is also anti-democratic.

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#187

Post by deogeo »

zwaps wrote: post #168

Istanbul these days is a tragedy, at least it feels like it. One of the three greatest cities in human history, and so many signs of "almost making it back". But now, everything has the stench of moving into the wrong direction. Seriously, you can feel it in the people, the shops, the buildings. It makes me really sad never to have been there in its prime. Turkey was never not a troubled country, but Turkish friends…

> It makes me really sad never to have been there in its prime.

Narrowly missed it by ~six centuries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople :)

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#188

Post by tuvan »

chr1 wrote: post #183
tuvan wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, racism exists. Armenian, Greek etc are used as insults by racist people. This doesn’t mean that it is the general state of public. People like Trump use Mexican as an insult, that doesn’t change the fact that there are tons of people with Mexican roots that identify as American and are well respected by the non-racist majority of the nation. I don’t see how PKK is anything like American revolution. PKK isn’t rep…

Do you know of any cases where anyone in America called someone "Mexican" as an insult? Could someone file a lawsuit because he was called "Mexican"? I don't think so, and i don't think USA and Turkey are comparable. PKK and Kurds want to have their own country, that's natural, every nation wants that, and if history have taken a bit different path Turks could be in the same situation. If there was free speech in Tur…

Kurds have an independent country, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan

In this day and age, seperatist referandums are just dreams. Kurdistan Kurds had a referandum to declare complete independence from Iraq with 90%+ in favor of independance but they couldn’t make that recognized by international parties, even with Iraq having no practical government. And we saw what happened when Catalans attempted the same thing.

Though considering the elections in April Erdogans party got more votes in south eastern Turkey than pro PKK HDP. It is very easy to see that Kurds prefer Erdogan over PKK.

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#189

Post by m00dy »

chr1 wrote: post #116
tuvan wrote: post #60

I don't really know what is so special about the school which they decided to base the entire article on. This is just a small sample of the ongoing intellectual purge in Turkey. Every university rector is appointed by Erdogan, most professors in STEM, if they haven't fled, avoid any kind of political stance to continue teaching with the hopes of raising intellectuals who will help save the country. This is the unive…

Turkey is an extension of a multi-national empire which had extreme levels of animosity between its nations, people who identified as non-turks were severely penalized in the past, and to this day allegations of having a non Turk grandparent is something that can be used against politicians. Armenian is still considered an offensive word in Turkey, (as is Turk in Armenia), so portraying Turkey as an idyllic multi-nat…

I dont really understand why people are making concrete assumptions about a terrorist organization without living in the country. Terrorism of PKK cannot be comparable to American revolution. You never lived in Turkey and you dont know the culture there. Turkey and US have completely different cultural basis and you cant just show up and making assumptions like these. I mean of course you can, from my point of view it is just funny.

Re: How Turkey Purged Its Intellectuals

#190

Post by [deleted] »

madez wrote: post #66
blfr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We weren't really oppressed by our government. The March events, as they're know here, were mostly homegrown commies pushing out the Jewish wing of the party with decent people getting caught in the purge and following protests. But it was all happening with two hundred thousand Soviet soldiers stationed in the country. The communist government wouldn't have lasted a month without the Soviet support. The situation is…

Given that history, are there common opinions and feelings in Poland regarding Russias ongoing war with Ukraine?

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