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Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

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Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#71

Post by sdan »

bhauer wrote: post #38
eejjjj82 wrote: post #37

" In the small South Carolina town of Newberry, Bob's Red Mill muesli cereal is hard to come by. That presents a challenge for resident Gregory Kelly, who can't get enough of the stuff. He'd rather not truck the 40 miles or so to Columbia to stock up on it, but he's also loath to buy it from the company's website, which he says is riddled with tracking software from Google" Somebody get this man a Firefox Privacy Tab

I feel the author was struggling to find a suitable anecdote to open the story. And this one seems a bit far-fetched, perhaps even exaggerated by Mr. Kelly as a means of illustrating the hassle of curtailing the surveillance apparatus of Google. But someone who has gone to the lengths described probably knows how to block requests to google-analytics.com.

He should probably install this: https://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ It's so good.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#72

Post by panpanna »

vetinari wrote: post #49
babypuncher wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google tracking is baked into Android pretty deep. Simply not having an account doesn't stop Google from tracking what you do on your phone.

It requires being signed in. If you are not signed in, for extra safety you can also disable google play framework and all google apps. You won't get things like fused location, but hey, that one requires connecting to google services too.

You may or may not be right about this.

The only way to verify this is to install some system level firewall and carefully inspect all logs.

Until you do that, we simple don't know.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#73

Post by s3r3nity »

eejjjj82 wrote: post #37

" In the small South Carolina town of Newberry, Bob's Red Mill muesli cereal is hard to come by. That presents a challenge for resident Gregory Kelly, who can't get enough of the stuff. He'd rather not truck the 40 miles or so to Columbia to stock up on it, but he's also loath to buy it from the company's website, which he says is riddled with tracking software from Google" Somebody get this man a Firefox Privacy Tab

I think it says a lot - either about tech culture or Firefox's marketing - that many people don't know about these types of tools that solve the problem.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#74

Post by sdan »

komali2 wrote: post #27
com2kid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bonus work: Make sure none of your friends upload a photo with you in it, which basically means they don't take your photo with an Android phone. If somehow your picture does get onto an Android phone, somehow make sure you aren't labeled.

Better: Download a fuckload of https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ photos, create social media accounts under your name, and bloat the accounts with these photos while tagging yourself.

Smart idea. I love it.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#75

Post by xboxnolifes »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #39
nvrspyx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash tolls cost more. You either need people stationed to collect the toll or send people every so often to collect the tolls from the machines. The machines would also need more maintenance than the camera or EasyPass system because they're mechanical. You also need the camera system regardless in case someone drives through without paying or simply doesn't have cash on hand. Plus, people will need exact change or h…

Maybe. But the lack of cash tolls also enables the Surveillance State. So once again, we're trading privacy and liberty for what amounts to pocket lint. I think we have closure on the American experiment. Laziness/convenience trumps anything else.

> the lack of cash tolls also enables the Surveillance State

There are cameras there whether it is a cash toll or not.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#76

Post by vetinari »

panpanna wrote: post #72
vetinari wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It requires being signed in. If you are not signed in, for extra safety you can also disable google play framework and all google apps. You won't get things like fused location, but hey, that one requires connecting to google services too.

You may or may not be right about this. The only way to verify this is to install some system level firewall and carefully inspect all logs. Until you do that, we simple don't know.

Or you can inspect AOSP itself and bring your device to AOSP-like state.

Sure, you won't know whether the vendor of your device didn't modify the firmware itself, but what motivation is there for Samsung, Sony or Huawei to help Google to get user data?

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#77

Post by Animats »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #17
Dunedan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't prevent Google from collecting information about you. Even though you don't actively use Google on your Android device, doesn't mean it doesn't phone home and reports information to Google. For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disa…

> For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disable it, your phone will still fetch GPS positioning information from Google unless you change that to use another service. Nope. Sending this data to Google requires an opt in on Android (Google Locati…

Right. I use Mozilla's location services, OpenStreetMap, and ZaNavi with locally stored maps.

Not from fanaticism. It's just less hassle. Google is always getting in your face, wanting something or pushing an "upgrade" or or advertising something. Don't need that.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#78

Post by deftnerd »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #70
babypuncher wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google tracking is baked into Android pretty deep. Simply not having an account doesn't stop Google from tracking what you do on your phone.

> Google tracking is baked into Android pretty deep Citation needed.

Google requires all apps that are on Google Play to use Firebase, which is baked into the OS, for notifications. Developers might make apps available on F-Droid or through individual download, but most of the time, those are just the same versions available on Google Play and configured to use Firebase.

The problem is that while Android is OS, most apps use functions and OS-level API's available that are only available through the Google Play Services application. This is a good thing for people who have phones from manufacturers who don't update the OS's, but it's a bad thing if you don't want Google Play Services to run.

You don't want Google Play Services (or Google Mobile Services) to run because if it's running, it's talking to Google (even if you never configured an account) in order to use their hosted API's like location detection based on nearby Wifi AP's, push notifications, malware scanning, etc. Whenever it connects to those hosted API's, it POST's a unique device ID.

This is harder than it sounds. The current versions of the stock keyboard, clock, calendar, contacts manager, and even phone dialer all have Google Play Services as a dependency.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#79

Post by singron »

rjf72 wrote: post #40
tantalor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incognito mode?

Incognito mode is mostly useless as an actual privacy tool. You're still exposing a substantial amount of information. The most basic would be your IP. Most IPs are of course dynamic, but there are two factors here: 1) The IP only changes when your lease expires or you manually renew it. This is not a normal part of starting an incognito session. Google has a confirmed identity (such as by being logged into a Google…

Re dynamic IPs: you may often get the same IP again on renewal. You might have more luck if you randomize MAC addresses, but it's certainly possible that they will keep giving the same IP to a given subscriber until they have their own reason to reallocate addresses (e.g. maybe so that a crashlooping router doesn't exhaust available leases for other subscribers).

E.g. from this ad tech company[0] specializing in IP tracking (take it with a grain of salt):

> In fact our research has discovered many homes that have theoretically dynamic IP’s, but have held the same IP for multiple years. Because of this recursive reassignment the typical location targeted by El Toro has held the same IP address for 7 months.

0: https://www.eltoro.com/how-long-does-an-ip-address-stay-atta...

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#80

Post by maximente »

nvrspyx wrote: post #32
chiefalchemist wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a new bridge near me. No cash tolls. It's either EasyPass or they photograph your plates and mail you the bill. I presume the lack of cash tolls is semi intentional. I mean all cars are being photographed, as you can borrow and EasyPass.

Cash tolls cost more. You either need people stationed to collect the toll or send people every so often to collect the tolls from the machines. The machines would also need more maintenance than the camera or EasyPass system because they're mechanical. You also need the camera system regardless in case someone drives through without paying or simply doesn't have cash on hand. Plus, people will need exact change or h…

sure, but all this relies on a fundamental assumption: that the entity running the toll booth already has the means to collect outside the point of transaction pretty reliably.

so, it's either a highly connected society, or more cynically, a high surveillance society.

in a sense it's a self fueling machine: you need to have that data linked to collect outside the tool booth, which requires data linked from DMV or whatever local equivalent is, then strong (enough) justice system/penalties/enforcement to get those who didn't pay at toll booth to pay, etc.

you can bet that the smarter investment, despite these drawbacks, in less "advanced" countries is to have manned tolls because there's a high probability that they won't be able to collect using the sort of infrastructure upon which this relies.

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