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Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

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Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#11

Post by chiefalchemist »

maximente wrote: post #3

wow, i had no idea someone in what i assume is rural South Carolina is willing to undertake a pretty substantial convenience/time cost - drive 40 miles (and back?) to purchase directly - in order to better guard their privacy. wonder if he also prefers cash? although this article is google-focused, not more generally on privacy which would presumably involve defeating credit card companies with cash. i'm wondering wh…

There's a new bridge near me. No cash tolls. It's either EasyPass or they photograph your plates and mail you the bill.

I presume the lack of cash tolls is semi intentional. I mean all cars are being photographed, as you can borrow and EasyPass.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#12

Post by madez »

phmagic wrote: post #4

(disclaimer: I work at a big tech firm, but I've had this opinion before working here) I'm confused by the lengths people have gone through to "protect" themselves from internet giants while freely giving away their info to credit card companies, traditional retailers, small businesses. Credit card transaction data have been sold for years without most of us knowing about it. Small startups, boutique stores rarely ha…

> I'm confused by the lengths people have gone through to "protect" themselves from internet giants while freely giving away their info to credit card companies, traditional retailers, small businesses.

You are invalidly generalizing. I try to eliminate all contact I have with the tech giants, and I do not have a credit card, I am at a privacy respecting bank (GLS Gemeinschaftsbank), and I use cash.

Additionally, by sharing your data with a company, you give that company power over yourself and others by enabling them with the knowledge they have over you. Considering this, it is less problematic to give access to data to a small company compared to a tech giant.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#13

Post by Dunedan »

Animats wrote: post #2

Well, of course. Just don't sign up for a Google account. When you get an Android phone new, there's a moment when it asks you to sign up or sign in with a Google account. There's a "later" option". Click that, and then remove the Google one-time startup program. Install F-Droid, and get your apps from there. The mail program on Android will talk to an IMAP server. Find one to use, and you don't need Gmail. No ads. O…

That doesn't prevent Google from collecting information about you. Even though you don't actively use Google on your Android device, doesn't mean it doesn't phone home and reports information to Google.

For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disable it, your phone will still fetch GPS positioning information from Google unless you change that to use another service. And so on and so on ...

That's just one example, but there are multiple occasions where your stock Android phone phones home to Google.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#14

Post by giggles_giggles »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10
phmagic wrote: post #4

(disclaimer: I work at a big tech firm, but I've had this opinion before working here) I'm confused by the lengths people have gone through to "protect" themselves from internet giants while freely giving away their info to credit card companies, traditional retailers, small businesses. Credit card transaction data have been sold for years without most of us knowing about it. Small startups, boutique stores rarely ha…

I would point out that many organizations collect data, but tech companies are the most effective at abusing it. Their competence makes them by far, the most dangerous.

It's the breadth and depth of data which Google, Facebook, and Amazon have access to (and their ability to leverage it) that changes the privacy threat model entirely.

A mom and pop store I give my credit card to in town can't track me across the Internet and correlate my browsing activity to my purchases, for whatever nefarious purpose, for instance. They can't read my email and correlate it with my location data. And so on. That's the difference.

Worse, Google in particular is financially incentivized to track me and perform all that correlation for the purposes of advertising. A family owned business I visit downtown, not so much.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#15

Post by mediumdeviation »

phmagic wrote: post #4

(disclaimer: I work at a big tech firm, but I've had this opinion before working here) I'm confused by the lengths people have gone through to "protect" themselves from internet giants while freely giving away their info to credit card companies, traditional retailers, small businesses. Credit card transaction data have been sold for years without most of us knowing about it. Small startups, boutique stores rarely ha…

I think you're thinking of a different threat model from these users. If you're concerned about breaches by malicious actors, then yes this defense makes sense.

However, if you're worried about data mined from tracking your personal behavior, which is what the users here are worried about, then it makes sense to spread your data out. Traditional stores are not going to send each other your transaction history to build a profile of interest and personality, and each store won't have a complete enough history or even the expertise to mine it.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#17

Post by lern_too_spel »

Dunedan wrote: post #13
Animats wrote: post #2

Well, of course. Just don't sign up for a Google account. When you get an Android phone new, there's a moment when it asks you to sign up or sign in with a Google account. There's a "later" option". Click that, and then remove the Google one-time startup program. Install F-Droid, and get your apps from there. The mail program on Android will talk to an IMAP server. Find one to use, and you don't need Gmail. No ads. O…

That doesn't prevent Google from collecting information about you. Even though you don't actively use Google on your Android device, doesn't mean it doesn't phone home and reports information to Google. For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disa…

> For example, if you don't actively disable it, your phone sends the names of all Wifi-networks in your proximity to Google, so Google can tell you where you are faster and more accurate than with GPS. Even if you disable it, your phone will still fetch GPS positioning information from Google unless you change that to use another service.

Nope. Sending this data to Google requires an opt in on Android (Google Location Services checkbox in the device setup flow). iOS has the same location system, but it won't even let you opt out of it, and that might be the source of your confusion.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#18

Post by babypuncher »

Animats wrote: post #2

Well, of course. Just don't sign up for a Google account. When you get an Android phone new, there's a moment when it asks you to sign up or sign in with a Google account. There's a "later" option". Click that, and then remove the Google one-time startup program. Install F-Droid, and get your apps from there. The mail program on Android will talk to an IMAP server. Find one to use, and you don't need Gmail. No ads. O…

Google tracking is baked into Android pretty deep. Simply not having an account doesn't stop Google from tracking what you do on your phone.

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#19

Post by colemickens »

phmagic wrote: post #4

(disclaimer: I work at a big tech firm, but I've had this opinion before working here) I'm confused by the lengths people have gone through to "protect" themselves from internet giants while freely giving away their info to credit card companies, traditional retailers, small businesses. Credit card transaction data have been sold for years without most of us knowing about it. Small startups, boutique stores rarely ha…

How does this argument come up every time? If I can't have absolute privacy, I should just give up? The same way I'd love to give up every last bit of dependence on Google, I'd love to get decentralized fintech. But the popular one is a bad word that starts with B and I fear has spoiled the well. (Though it's been interesting traveling through Europe and seeing Bitcoin signs all over Prague, the ticket machine offering bitcoin top up at the Bern train station, and a tradesman/construction worker wearing a Bitcoin advocacy shirt while walking to the beach in Bern today. And don't get me started on how much time I've spent triple-re-verifying my identity with Mastercard or waiting 5+ days for critical ACH transactions.)

Re: Never-Googlers: Web users take the ultimate step to guard their data

#20

Post by ska »

phmagic wrote: post #4

(disclaimer: I work at a big tech firm, but I've had this opinion before working here) I'm confused by the lengths people have gone through to "protect" themselves from internet giants while freely giving away their info to credit card companies, traditional retailers, small businesses. Credit card transaction data have been sold for years without most of us knowing about it. Small startups, boutique stores rarely ha…

I don't think I have knowingly met anyone who took significant steps to limit exposure to big tech firms who hasn't also taken significant steps in other areas of their life. And people I have met who do take this stuff seriously do things like cash-only, PO box only, no (nearly) online accounts etc. They are certainly making their lives less convenient on this principal.

Where are you meeting people who fit the description you give?

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