New York state has banned cat declawing • Hacker News Board

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#31

Post by alasdair_ » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:35 AM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #4

I know a lot of people that would not own a cat that isn't declawed. I wonder what the net outcome is on cats being euthanized, I'm sure this will increase that number.

>I know a lot of people that would not own a cat that isn't declawed. I wonder what the net outcome is on cats being euthanized, I'm sure this will increase that number.

I had a girlfriend who wanted a cat but wanted to declaw the front claws, leaving the rear for defense if it ever got outside (I don't have a cat - this was her decision). The shelter explicitly forbade this, including a scary-looking legal contract promising not to declaw a cat, so she didn't adopt it in the end.

It's very likely the cat is now dead due to this policy since no one adopted it. I'm not sure that this outcome is more humane.

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#32

Post by alasdair_ » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:40 AM UTC

controlweather wrote: post #6

qwsxyh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an American comment.

It’s been illegal in Washington forever

>It’s been illegal in Washington forever

No it hasn't.

https://www.thesprucepets.com/states-where-declawing-is-ille...

"No U.S. states ban the practice of declawing." (2019)

NY is the first state to ban it statewide.

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#33

Post by BasicObject » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:52 AM UTC

Joakal wrote: post #17

dahartigan wrote: post #7

Been illegal here in Queensland, Australia for quite some time now.

Cats are legal to own. They get shelter, clean food and water including medical care. In fact people release cats into wild when they don't want to care for them leading to a lot of wildcats. While some places forbid cats going outside and encourage desexing, all this doesn't help the disadvantaged wildlife. Cats should be banned. Why not legalize ownership of domesticated native animals such as koalas for example? B…

It's so sad you're being downvoted because you're right. Cats are destroying many of the world's ecosystems and cats owners and stray feeders are to blame.

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#34

Post by m463 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #3

They should have banned outdoor cats at the same time. Cats shouldn't be declawed and neither should they be outside, but if they're going to be outside it is better for the native wildlife if they have been declawed (making them ineffective hunters.)

I think this person's comment may be unpopular, but cats have decimated the world's songbird population.

"Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for U.S. birds and mammals"

I would say further that declawing doesn't prevent hunting and killing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/29/cats-w...

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#35

Post by krageon » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #30

I haven't formed an opinion on this yet. I love cats and my gut is sympathetic to anti-declawing viewpoints as I would never declaw a cat myself, but I'm seeing a lot of anti-declawing rhetoric here that makes very little sense if you look at it logically in contrast with neutering. If you're an opponent of declawing, are you also an opponent of neutering? If not, can you present an argument against declawing that is…

Neutering is necessary mostly for societal benefit: It prevents stray cats (via catch and release) and/or runaways from creating more cats.

Declawing is necessary mostly for personal benefit: You can't train your cat and therefore it must lose their claws.

One is something that's useful for society as a whole, the other is useful because you are an asshole. That's mostly how I've seen the distinction. What kind of arguments have you encountered in the wild?

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#36

Post by flukus » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:24 AM UTC

Joakal wrote: post #17

dahartigan wrote: post #7

Been illegal here in Queensland, Australia for quite some time now.

Cats are legal to own. They get shelter, clean food and water including medical care. In fact people release cats into wild when they don't want to care for them leading to a lot of wildcats. While some places forbid cats going outside and encourage desexing, all this doesn't help the disadvantaged wildlife. Cats should be banned. Why not legalize ownership of domesticated native animals such as koalas for example? B…

Taking a native animal and locking them in a back yard doesn't make them domesticated. Dogs and cats (to a lesser extent) co-evolved with humans over thousands of years and can even be seen as a partnership.

Koalas in particular would make terrible pets, they need a lot of space for multiple Eucalyptus trees to keep them fed because they're stupid to recognize fresh leaves pulled off a tree from leaves still attached to a tree, they can be very aggressive, they piss everywhere and thanks to their diet it's got an extremely strong smell. And to top it all off this smelly piss can transmit the chlamydia that they are widely suffering from to humans.

Outdoor cats should be banned but they aren't going to be replaced by Koalas any time soon.

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#37

Post by Joakal » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:49 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #36

Joakal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats are legal to own. They get shelter, clean food and water including medical care. In fact people release cats into wild when they don't want to care for them leading to a lot of wildcats. While some places forbid cats going outside and encourage desexing, all this doesn't help the disadvantaged wildlife. Cats should be banned. Why not legalize ownership of domesticated native animals such as koalas for example? B…

Taking a native animal and locking them in a back yard doesn't make them domesticated. Dogs and cats (to a lesser extent) co-evolved with humans over thousands of years and can even be seen as a partnership. Koalas in particular would make terrible pets, they need a lot of space for multiple Eucalyptus trees to keep them fed because they're stupid to recognize fresh leaves pulled off a tree from leaves still attached…

Wild animal babies are rescued all the time. Fed and returned to wild. That's a potential source. But it will still take time but possible, an example I've followed are siberian foxes. Who expects an adult koala born in a backyard to suddenly be domesticated? I expect domestication of a wild adult koala to be the same as domesticating an adult wildcat. Very difficult despite "thousands of years of existing with humans"

I don't think koalas need the space. We're certainly not giving cats and dogs lots of room with chickens for them to feed on. We've been giving them dry and canned food. Another example are horses who eat hay are often in the barn.

There's not much funding for Chlamydia or similar health issues they have because the funding relies on government and people goodwill. If over a million koalas are owned by people, a lot of people would pay for medical solutions for their ill family members. Average population just doesnt have the same goodwill towards wild animals.

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#38

Post by flukus » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:07 AM UTC

Joakal wrote: post #37

flukus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a native animal and locking them in a back yard doesn't make them domesticated. Dogs and cats (to a lesser extent) co-evolved with humans over thousands of years and can even be seen as a partnership. Koalas in particular would make terrible pets, they need a lot of space for multiple Eucalyptus trees to keep them fed because they're stupid to recognize fresh leaves pulled off a tree from leaves still attached…

Wild animal babies are rescued all the time. Fed and returned to wild. That's a potential source. But it will still take time but possible, an example I've followed are siberian foxes. Who expects an adult koala born in a backyard to suddenly be domesticated? I expect domestication of a wild adult koala to be the same as domesticating an adult wildcat. Very difficult despite "thousands of years of existing with human…

> I don't think koalas need the space. We're certainly not giving cats and dogs lots of room with chickens for them to feed on. We've been giving them dry and canned food. Another example are horses who eat hay are often in the barn.

The need the space for the trees, they need the trees because they simply won't eat from non-fresh sources. Buying food from the shop like we do for cats and dogs is simply not an option.

> I expect domestication of a wild adult koala to be the same as domesticating an adult wildcat

Why would you expect that given the wildly different starting points? Wildcats are somewhat generalist carnivorous pack animals, quite similar to our selves and species that have been (debatably) domesticated before. Koalas are hyper specialized and very stupid herbivores with no domesticated relatives. There are many species on earth but very few of them are suitable for domestication, especially domestication in modern urban environments.

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#39

Post by yladiz » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 8:13 AM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #30

I haven't formed an opinion on this yet. I love cats and my gut is sympathetic to anti-declawing viewpoints as I would never declaw a cat myself, but I'm seeing a lot of anti-declawing rhetoric here that makes very little sense if you look at it logically in contrast with neutering. If you're an opponent of declawing, are you also an opponent of neutering? If not, can you present an argument against declawing that is…

I’m curious, what arguments have you seen for declawing that are illogical compared to neutering?

Re: New York state has banned cat declawing

#40

Post by keanzu » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

qwsxyh wrote: post #28

Joakal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats are known to kill billions of animals per year. https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/cats-kill-billions...

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...

From your link:

The most recent figures of how many creatures are killed by cats are from the Mammal Society. They estimate that cats in the UK catch up to 275 million prey items a year, of which 27 million are birds.

Joakal claimed billions. Your link says a quarter billion just in the UK.