Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#111

Post by craftinator » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

dgzl wrote: post #106

_8j50 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ordinary users don't know what a URL even is. But they do assume every site they visit isn't being logged by Microsoft, much like they assume their car's manufacturer isn't recording the places they drive to using GPS. "Users don't care" is such an intellectually dishonest argument when users aren't technical enough to understand the subject.

Maybe we should differentiate "users understand and don't care" against "users don't understand and don't care". On one hand, a TOS usually describes privacy implications. On the other hand, there's no accountability that a user has understood or even read the TOS. Is it unreasonable to assume people will read the fine print?

This needs to include the class of users who'd don't care because they don't understand. If they knew, they'd be upset too.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#112

Post by userbinator » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #15

reaperducer wrote: post #9

Every time I see people on HN campaigning for Microsoft as some kind of reformed tech company that has seen the errors of its past and turned into a force for good, something like this comes up. Same old Microsoft. Second verse same as the first.

The good part of Microsoft is the division responsible for languages, compilers and cloud. Meanwhile an old Microsoft makes Windows, Office, etc. While the latter has improved somewhat, only the former has reformed.

> Meanwhile an old Microsoft makes Windows, Office, etc.

That's the "new" Microsoft... I'm not sure if there's anything left of the old one anymore.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#113

Post by rnotaro » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

rch wrote: post #81

alexgrist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore, that’s the new layout.

I still see the old (superior) layout when I use an incognito window, so I guess the new version is being tested or rolled out gradually.

Interesting, I've never noticed that.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#114

Post by userbinator » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

Is there even a "pure" browser anymore? By that, I mean one which by default will do this: if I enter a URL in the address bar, it will fetch that page and its associated resources. If I click a link on a page, it will fetch its destination (this is obviously a simplified view, ignoring things like JS on the page etc.) No other network activity, no "recommendations", no other attempts to be "smart" or "helping" by doing anything beyond "pure" browsing.

I see a lot of this extra functionality being justified in the name of "security", but I don't think the gradual erosion of personal responsibility and agency that results is something which should continue.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#115

Post by dontbenebby » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #114

Is there even a "pure" browser anymore? By that, I mean one which by default will do this: if I enter a URL in the address bar, it will fetch that page and its associated resources. If I click a link on a page, it will fetch its destination (this is obviously a simplified view, ignoring things like JS on the page etc.) No other network activity, no "recommendations", no other attempts to be "smart" or "helping" by do…

Firefox might not meet your definition but with a few extensions (Containers, NoScript, uBlock origin) it's quite good at protecting your privacy.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#116

Post by skrebbel » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #63

acollins1331 wrote: post #22

Edge is the number one browser in the world for installing chrome.

Chrome is the number one browser in the world for installing Firefox.

Definitely number two.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#117

Post by DannyBee » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #97

arijun wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making a big assumption that ordinary users care if Microsoft knows what URLs they visit--how many of them use blockers or another technology to opt out of e.g. Facebook tracking?

Ordinary users don't know what a URL even is. But they do assume every site they visit isn't being logged by Microsoft, much like they assume their car's manufacturer isn't recording the places they drive to using GPS. "Users don't care" is such an intellectually dishonest argument when users aren't technical enough to understand the subject.

[citation needed]

Most users probably don't assume anything, it doesn't even enter the lists of concerns or cares they have or ever would. It's not that they don't understand the subject, they simply do not give a crap one way or the other.

Random family in the US or elsewhere simply does not give a crap about things like this, no matter how much you want them to.

It's not ignorance, and the most intellectually dishonest arguments are really the argument here - "If people knew more about the subject or could know more, they'd care!".

If they knew as much as you did, they still wouldn't care.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#118

Post by LeoPanthera » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #114

Is there even a "pure" browser anymore? By that, I mean one which by default will do this: if I enter a URL in the address bar, it will fetch that page and its associated resources. If I click a link on a page, it will fetch its destination (this is obviously a simplified view, ignoring things like JS on the page etc.) No other network activity, no "recommendations", no other attempts to be "smart" or "helping" by do…

I believe that Gnome's Epiphany (now confusingly called "Web") and KDE's Falkon are still "pure" browsers. Epiphany can integrate with a Firefox account, I think? But it's not on by default.

Epiphany only works on Linux but Falkon is available for Windows as well. Neither works on Macs but Macs have Safari which probably counts as "pure" if you aren't signed into iCloud. iCloud is pretty inoffensive even if you are.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#119

Post by jodrellblank » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #102

zzo38computer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't need Edge, Chrome, or Firefox to install each other. If you know the URL of the file you want to download, you could use curl or wget. (Of course, that won't work if you do not know the URL. But hopefully someone will tell you if you are unable to find it on your own computer.)

Assuming you're on a machine with curl or wget installed. I haven't used Windows in 20 years, but I don't believe it comes with either one by default.

Invoke-WebRequest, aliased as iwr, shipped in Windows as part of PowerShell for 6 years, will do it with no browser.

Re: Edge sends full URLs of pages visited to Microsoft

#120

Post by jodrellblank » Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

aembleton wrote: post #100

zzo38computer wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't need Edge, Chrome, or Firefox to install each other. If you know the URL of the file you want to download, you could use curl or wget. (Of course, that won't work if you do not know the URL. But hopefully someone will tell you if you are unable to find it on your own computer.)

Does curl or wget ship with Windows?

No; to get it without going through a browser you'd have to install Windows Subsystem for Linux as an optional feature, then download a Linux distro from the Microsoft Store - arguable whether that doesn't involve a browser, really.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10