Pirate Apple App Store Innovates With ‘Reverse BitTorrent’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Pirate Apple App Store Innovates With ‘Reverse BitTorrent’

#21

Post by willstraf » Mon, Dec 27, 2010, 1:12 AM UTC

haentz wrote: post #2

> They do what they do because they believe that Apple’s App Store is unfair to consumers since it has no trial service or refund policy. BS. They do this because they don't want to bother with paying a couple of bucks for an app. Plenty of apps are cracked, which actually offer a free version for testing. It's even factually wrong. Refund is possible…

It's interesting you mention that. I pointed that out today, and a new rule was implemented, saying that if a cracked application has a built in (fully featured) timed trial when it detects that it is a pirated version, then that check should remain intact and un-patched, otherwise the crack or request for the crack will be removed. Not perfect, but at least a step in the right direction (they didn't have an argument when it was brought up, because their reasoning is that people want a fair chance to try apps before paying, which this compromise allows).

I'd link to the thread on their forums about this new rule, but I'm assuming that most people in here are iOS developers who seem to be against this, so you probably don't have an account on their website and can't view the post.

Re: Pirate Apple App Store Innovates With ‘Reverse BitTorrent’

#22

Post by Locke1689 » Mon, Dec 27, 2010, 7:53 AM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #5

patio11 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is horsepuckey. Large groups of people have learned that there is no social censure for stealing certain types of goods. Stealing is strictly superior to buying for them. They'll steal it if it is possible. I have both trials and a very generous refund policy, and my downloadable app gets stolen frequently. (And my web app gets stolen never, which should be a preview of coming attractions for people who are…

Piracy is not theft. Theft requires that one is deprived of some tangible benefit. Downloads cannot be strictly correlated to lost sales, because many download to sample, or download things they wouldn't spend money on anyway. This doesn't mean you have to agree with filesharing, or think it's a good thing, or participate in it, but calling it "theft" is scaremongering.

While you have a point, it's mostly irrelevant to this discussion. We could argue about the legal punishment for property theft versus copyright infringement too but that's not relevant either.

Re: Pirate Apple App Store Innovates With ‘Reverse BitTorrent’

#23

Post by chc » Mon, Dec 27, 2010, 7:53 PM UTC

gloob wrote: post #18

joe_the_user wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy isn't theft in the sense of a depriving any one person of goods they would otherwise use. Piracy is theft in the sense that it deprives a producer of the income or potential income that they would otherwise make from someone buying a good. Piracy is like breaking into a warehouse full of unsold toys slated to be destroyed. It's against the law but it's hard to see it impacting a particular person negatively (n…

Piracy is theft in the sense that it deprives a producer of the income or potential income that they would otherwise make from someone buying a good. So do successful competitors, boycotts, Internet FUD, and a whole slew of other things, in fairness. It occurs to me that property (of any sort) is a metaphysical concept.

Frugality also fits the definition of "theft in the sense that it deprives a producer of the income or potential income that they would otherwise make from someone buying a good." If I were less austere, you could make a ton more money off me.

Also, property is not itself all that metaphysical, at least not if we accept the idea that things actually exist as we perceive them (which seems like the opposite of metaphysics). Some of the trappings we attach to it might be, but property is pretty fundamental to the idea of self. On a very basic level, my property is something I have.

Re: Pirate Apple App Store Innovates With ‘Reverse BitTorrent’

#24

Post by kennywinker » Mon, Dec 27, 2010, 9:25 PM UTC

willstraf wrote: post #21

haentz wrote: post #2

> They do what they do because they believe that Apple’s App Store is unfair to consumers since it has no trial service or refund policy. BS. They do this because they don't want to bother with paying a couple of bucks for an app. Plenty of apps are cracked, which actually offer a free version for testing. It's even factually wrong. Refund is possible…

It's interesting you mention that. I pointed that out today, and a new rule was implemented, saying that if a cracked application has a built in (fully featured) timed trial when it detects that it is a pirated version, then that check should remain intact and un-patched, otherwise the crack or request for the crack will be removed. Not perfect, but at least a step in the right direction (they didn't have an argument…

I suspect doing this would run afoul of the Mac App Store guidelines. There is a bunch of language about trials, demos, licence keys, etc.

So... nice of them to say that, but I think it amounts to just lip service.

Similarly, why is Angry Birds available as a cracked download? There is a free version you can try out and decide if you like it. I call bullshit on the "try before you buy" axiom.

Re: Pirate Apple App Store Innovates With ‘Reverse BitTorrent’

#25

Post by willstraf » Wed, Dec 29, 2010, 4:49 PM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #24

willstraf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting you mention that. I pointed that out today, and a new rule was implemented, saying that if a cracked application has a built in (fully featured) timed trial when it detects that it is a pirated version, then that check should remain intact and un-patched, otherwise the crack or request for the crack will be removed. Not perfect, but at least a step in the right direction (they didn't have an argument…

I suspect doing this would run afoul of the Mac App Store guidelines. There is a bunch of language about trials, demos, licence keys, etc. So... nice of them to say that, but I think it amounts to just lip service. Similarly, why is Angry Birds available as a cracked download? There is a free version you can try out and decide if you like it. I call bullshit on the "try before you buy" axiom.

I agree that the whole "try before you buy" thing seems like bullshit, but let me confirm. The "new rule" I posted about above is referring to a case in which the application is a paid application that is cracked, but the application detects the crack and instead of limiting its functions or ceasing to work, it self-instills a "timed trial". Definitely would be annoying for developers to implement, but it will also make you kind of "untouchable" to the pirate/cracker community, since you as a developer are satisfying the "try before you buy" rule that they like to say they follow.

Angry Birds is different. Their "rule" and way of thinking applies to fully featured trials. Angry Birds offers not a timed trial, but I believe it instead only allows you to play the first level before paying. Not saying I fully agree with this technicality, but that is the way that the crackers are seeing it.

Hope this clears some things up.