The Loneliness Epidemic • Hacker News Board

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#331

Post by dondawest » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

blaser-waffle wrote: post #323

dondawest wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that many worker bees are “clueless” but that breaks the GP heuristics. My reading seems similar but different to yours. I agree that it has nothing to do with social status outside of work: to me it’s about emotional processing. I can’t recall the specific passage but I remember Venkat talking about how clueless people seek absolution in collective emotional processing. That’s what leads me to believe the du…

> I completely disagree that Stanley is a loser, to me he is a quintessential clueless. He’s working in the office, not the warehouse: he’s in middle management, so IMO he’s clueless by definition because he is part of the padding between the masters/sociopaths/bosses and the slaves/worker bees/losers. Stanley isn't middle management, he's an aging sales guy who is too old to justify switching jobs; he's close to ret…

He is clueless because he provides the buffer between the masters/sociopaths/bosses and the slaves/worker bees/losers in the warehouse.

He is clueless because he doesn’t have the willingness or ability to be a ruthless sociopath , but he still doesn’t want to be a loser in the warehouse with Darryl.

Stanley is a low-status clueless, not a high-status loser. (IMO).

These are interesting perspectives all around and I welcome further friendly debate. Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys. :)

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#332

Post by quacked » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #299

quacked wrote: post #236

I think I'll be a little buried, but a thought- where can you go to hang out and not spend any money? Seems like historical gathering places all now cost money, or you're not allowed to be there.

Tech meetups. Volunteering.

Both of those involve doing something. I'm not talking about meeting new people or starting a new hobby, I mean just... going to sit and gab with your friends.

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#333

Post by war1025 » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

dondawest wrote: post #330

war1025 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Directly from the article: """ The minimum-effort Loser Stanley tells him coldly, "this here is a run-out-the-clock situation." The line could apply to Stanley’s entire life. """ So either you are pulling your info from some more-original source than I am, or you're mis-remembering what the article says.

Then venkat’s own model is self-contradictory. He states clearly that middle managers provide the buffer between the sociopaths and losers. Thus, Stanley is clueless. Venkat’s description of Stanley as a “loser” completely destroys his own heuristics that only clueless are in middle management. So congratulations, you’ve found a flaw in Venkat’s logic. He contradicts himself. However, I still think the general heuris…

A sales rep is not middle management.

The people in the warehouse don't report to Stanley. His job is to get sales from customers. He has no one reporting to him.

Michael is the chief clueless person in the show. Dwight and Andy are aspiring clueless.

The losers are the people who do the day-to-day work that keeps the company in business. The sociopaths are the people at the top who view the company as a board game with pawns that can be moved around or sacrificed at will.

The purpose of the clueless is to put a buffer between the sociopaths and the losers so that the sociopaths don't have to consider that their pawns are real people with real feelings and real families to take care of.

There are three classes of losers according to his system:

1. Over-performing losers, who are prime candidates for promotion to the clueless ranks

2. Average losers, who know they have a raw deal but don't have the ambition or coldness to do anything about it.

3. Under-performing losers, who are prime sociopath candidates because they have a lack of "give a damn" about what they do and are willing to push the boundaries because they know the deal is not in their favor.

Note that the over-under here is relative to ability. Jim is an under-performing loser, while still being very good at his job, because he doesn't put in his best effort.

Kevin is an average loser because even though he's not that good at his job, he's giving a good-faith effort to what he does.

Dwight is over-performing because he's always attempting to go above and beyond, even when it is inconvenient to him.

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#334

Post by bigred100 » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

granshaw wrote: post #318

peckrob wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stay in your job for 15 years because you like the people, the work itself or some particular perk? When you finally leave, your next job will pay less than if you had hopped around each 2 years. That's if someone wants to hire you. This is so true, and the weirdest thing in the world to me. Especially in tech, you get really heavily punished for staying at a job more than a few years. To the point where, in interv…

> We have this weird aversion to people being content. As an immigrant I feel this is quite an American thing - there's always talk of your _career_, your _pursuits_, your _goals_, interesting things you did over the weekend...

I’m American and I consider much of this attitude to be deranged and frankly a form of mental illness. Unfortunately pretty much everyone has it (including me at times) so I don’t talk about this opinion that much.

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#335

Post by dondawest » Sat, Jul 20, 2019, 6:37 AM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #333

dondawest wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then venkat’s own model is self-contradictory. He states clearly that middle managers provide the buffer between the sociopaths and losers. Thus, Stanley is clueless. Venkat’s description of Stanley as a “loser” completely destroys his own heuristics that only clueless are in middle management. So congratulations, you’ve found a flaw in Venkat’s logic. He contradicts himself. However, I still think the general heuris…

A sales rep is not middle management. The people in the warehouse don't report to Stanley. His job is to get sales from customers. He has no one reporting to him. Michael is the chief clueless person in the show. Dwight and Andy are aspiring clueless. The losers are the people who do the day-to-day work that keeps the company in business. The sociopaths are the people at the top who view the company as a board game w…

Whoa, you just convinced me Stanley is a loser. I was totally wrong because I forgot Stanley’s job title. You’re right. No one reports to him. He’s a loser.

I was right and you were wrong. Learned something new today. Thank you!

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#336

Post by major505 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 1:41 AM UTC

bluntfang wrote: post #307

AdrianB1 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't go in a bar for a deep conversation, you have the library and local groups of interests for that. A bar is just for relaxing and socialization, you can talk anything you want as long as you find someone to listen (or ignore) you.

Relaxing and Socialization != Sexualizing a public place and solely trying to pick up women. Women want to go to a bar to relax too. Do you think they can relax when men are constantly trying to buy them drinks and calling them "pretty girls"? Genuine connection != deep conversation. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, beyond being an advocate for harassment.

Well, I would be happy if anyone would buy me drinks. Because uually I'm broke af.

Re: The Loneliness Epidemic

#337

Post by major505 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 1:43 AM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #209

bluntfang wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the creepy part is going to a public place and sexualizing it by explicitly seeking out "pretty girl"s and buying them drinks. Going out and seek genuine connections with people instead of buying "pretty girl"s drinks is not creepy.

You don't go in a bar for a deep conversation, you have the library and local groups of interests for that. A bar is just for relaxing and socialization, you can talk anything you want as long as you find someone to listen (or ignore) you.

Well, it dependends... last week I was drinkign a beer alone in my usual water shit hole, smoking a cigar... a guy came and ask for my ligther. In half a hour we where discussing the root causes of WWI. So... you can't have... but usually not with a girl you trying to impress.