Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal • Hacker News Board

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#61

Post by ssnistfajen » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #26

sunshinelackof wrote: post #12

It's scary, but there's nothing I can do. We need approachingly authoritarian action on this issue by world leaders. They've had the data for decades. And the longer they wait, the more dramatic the changes to everything will be. Certainly economic freedoms taken for today will be a thing of legend (and possibly horror.)

It won't be effective rapidly but: - walk as much as possible - buy as less as possible (if the sales plummet, less sending products overseas I suppose) or local - plant trees

The amount of emissions reduced by these acts, multiplied by the tiny portion of the society that actually bothers to do these, is so insignificant compared to overall carbon emissions that it may as well be a rounding error. I use to believe doing my part helps the planet -- I still try to be as environmentally-conscious as possible, but I no longer believe it has an effect on the fate of our society. What one/dozen/thousands of people do is absolutely insignificant as long as these people aren't the decision-makers.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#62

Post by adrianN » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #53

adrianN wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can start blaming China once there is a single country on Earth on track to stay within the 1.5° carbon budget. Until then you should talk to your own politicians why they aren't doing anything.

> Until then you should talk to your own politicians why they aren't doing anything. I would love to. But unfortunately the climate problem isn't even a small part of the political dialogue here.

Greta Thunberg was alone when she started protesting.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#63

Post by xvedejas » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

hsavit1 wrote: post #52

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advocate that governments cut down on soot emissions. i.e. vote. There are extremely important elections coming up in several states in November that will indirectly decide who controls Congress for the next ten years. Voting in this off-year election, especially if you live in Virginia can make a material difference in how the United States responds to this crisis.

And vote in the democratic primaries for politicians that don't take a moderate position on the issue. cough cough, Joe Biden is a moderate, cough cough

It's really not so simple as moderate vs progressive. For instance, Bernie Sanders does not support levying a carbon tax. I doubt he would seriously support any climate change effort that isn't ultimately part of a jobs / labor bill.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#64

Post by eledumb » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

FailMore wrote: post #4

If you're interested in following the latest climate change related news check out Paul Beckwith's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr546o7ImhGM57qoY0hHvkA He does 15 minute videos reviewing the latest papers and news. Headline: everything is happening faster than predicted. [I'm not affiliated with Paul in any way, I just like his videos.]

No, the climate models the businesses and politicians found acceptable are watered down models that showed that we had a lot of time before we needed to make changes, thus letting the businesses and politicians pass the buck.

The more aggressive models and the scientists that supported those models lost funding and were shouted down. Some of the models that got buried fully expected the changes to be happening at the pace we are witnessing. Some of those models said that once the permafrost started to thaw that it would release so much carbon, methane and nitrious oxide withing 10-15 years that the earth it's self would surpass human generated output. If those models are correct then it means we've passed a climate tipping point and nothing humans can do will reverse what's been set in motion. Event if human greenhouse gas output is reduced to zero overnight, the earth itself is now driving the changes to the climate.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#65

Post by markkat » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

Here's what we can do:

1. Refuse to support politicians that do not see this as the grave issue it is. Most other political issues won't matter if we cannot change the course of global warming.

2. Spread awareness. Update yourself on the facts, and share them with your friends and family.

3. Plant trees like crazy.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#66

Post by ndonnellan » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

Minor nitpick: 20,000 square km is not equal to 12,427 square miles. Looks like the author divided the area by the km/mi ratio instead of km^2/mi^2. I'd email the author but the mailto: is improperly formatted.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#67

Post by LoSboccacc » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

Will_Parker wrote: post #48

amluto wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds entirely tractable. Institute a carbon tax. In addition, create a tariff on all imports from countries that don’t have an equivalent bona fide carbon tax at the same or higher rate, and set the tariff such that it recovers 150% of the deficiency in taxes vs emissions. The tax needs to be transitive: if countries A and B don’t cooperate and country A reexports something from country B, the tariff needs to…

How do you decide the baseline emissions for the tax and tariffs, internationally? China emits about half the carbon as the USA, per capita. So is the USA willing to pay tax to China unidirectionally, until we get to their level? Does China need to keep their current per capita levels to avoid extra tariffs? How, roughly, could this work politically at a global level, in a way that also works within the politics of e…

china measured emission are about half of usa measured emission. china non measured emissions are another story. soot is yet another story, because not all co2 is created equally efficiently.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-climatechange-insig...

oh, and there's all the other shit china does of course https://nationalpost.com/news/world/scientists-discover-chin...

but somehow people dodge the issue every time with 'but the usa per capita' as if these measurement are really comparable.

e: wow, struck a nerve there? sourced with articles, even. now let's wait for dang to come and say this is 'unsubstantive'

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#68

Post by greglindahl » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

Will_Parker wrote: post #31

mistrial9 wrote: post #6

in the 2007 time-frame, the US National Snow and Ice Science Center showed up en-masse in California and were flipping out about ice changes, semi-desperate to find some way to communicate to the public about it. Post-"Inconvenient Truth" and early days of Twitter, the idea that if "somehow, someway, people could know about this" things would get better faster, was the knee-jerk idea amongst people who were immersed…

The trouble is that if the "we" who are doing something does not include China and the rest of the world in coordination, then it is just sacrificing local economics in vain. The idea that the rest of the world is going to follow suit automatically based only on morals is far from obvious. It doesn't seem that anyone in the mainstream has really found a way to come to grips with this, that at its core any solution is…

The entire world got together and signed a treaty to coordinate. You might not think it's perfect, but it exists.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#69

Post by xoraes » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

pjkundert wrote: post #34

There is something that you can do. Advocate that governments cut down on soot emissions. This accounts for a significant portion of the current temperature rise in the Arctic -- but, most importantly -- an unknown amount of the loss of snow and ice cover. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-track-... Unfortunately, this form of carbon (soot) is not as useful for funds transfer... Between cutting do…

Can you elaborate on what you meant by "funds transfer" or "wealth transfer"? I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Arctic Summer Melt Shows Ice Is Disappearing Faster Than Normal

#70

Post by greglindahl » Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #57

adrianN wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also just build renewables.

I'm not convinced that 100% renewables will actually create a resilient network

Good thing we have a long, long, long way to go to get anywhere near to 100% renewables.