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America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

theatlantic.com

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Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#281

Post by ralusek »

alltakendamned wrote: post #274
notzuck wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We both earn large professional salaries but decided to go to the suburbs for kids. We have 2 beaches within 20 minutes of us, we have parks, cinemas, out door water parks, outdoor pools, skate parks plus half an acre of garden and a big house where the kids can have a music room, a playroom, separate room for computer games and we get a very nice home office. I don't know why anyone would want to stay in the cramped…

so forgive my ignorance as this might be a cultural difference, but why have separate rooms for each play function? I mean, isn't a play room and a computer game room and even a music room just overlapping ?

The music room is for music. Why would you play computer games in the music room? Computer games are played in the computer games room.

Hope this helps sweetie, I know a lot about rooms.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#282

Post by bad_user »

pmart123 wrote: post #227
silencio wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am raising a 2.5 year old in SF and my experience is very similar to yours. We're looking at moving out to the East Bay soon to be closer to my parents, but SF - outside of housing - is not a bad place to be raising a child. So I have to tell my kid to ignore a syringe on the ground at a muni stop once in a while - like dangers don't also exist in suburban and rural areas - but poop barely phases us... it's like so…

Exposure isn’t a bad thing. Eventually, kids have to learn. Growing up first in the city and then in the adjacent suburb, I would say kids who grew up solely in the city were much more mature by the time they were 18. Many kids who grew up in the suburbs were “looking for the thrill” versus being cognizant of reality. Too often in the US, parents seems to try and shelter kids form near-term dangers at all costs versu…

Children have to be children. Yes, you have to make them responsible, to have chores, to start treating them like adults early.

But the necessity for exposure to "near-term dangers" is a very American thing to say and I believe that it is wrong.

Yes, children growing up in big cities are more mature. And cynical. And depressed.

The irony of the situation is that big cities are so dangerous nowadays that parents no longer allow their children to play outside unsupervised or to go anywhere by themselves until adolescence.

I grew up in a small city in the eighties and nineties (not in the US) and was walking home or to school, by myself, since I was 7 years old. The mentality back then for raising children was basically "make sure they do their homework and feed them once in a while". I now live in a big city and I couldn't do that with my son, because the environment is not the same. We live in a big city, but I still have to drive him everywhere, even though he's 9 years old.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#283

Post by jacobolus »

bad_user wrote: post #282
pmart123 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exposure isn’t a bad thing. Eventually, kids have to learn. Growing up first in the city and then in the adjacent suburb, I would say kids who grew up solely in the city were much more mature by the time they were 18. Many kids who grew up in the suburbs were “looking for the thrill” versus being cognizant of reality. Too often in the US, parents seems to try and shelter kids form near-term dangers at all costs versu…

Children have to be children. Yes, you have to make them responsible, to have chores, to start treating them like adults early. But the necessity for exposure to " near-term dangers " is a very American thing to say and I believe that it is wrong. Yes, children growing up in big cities are more mature. And cynical. And depressed. The irony of the situation is that big cities are so dangerous nowadays that parents no…

Anecdotally the people I know who grew up in cities have less psychiatric problems then people I knew who grew up in suburbs. They also don’t seem more cynical, just more competent.

Do you have any evidence? Or just a personal hunch?

> big cities are so dangerous nowadays

Big cities nowadays are dramatically safer than they were a few decades ago.

> parents no longer allow their children to play outside unsupervised

This is due to the parents’ paranoid fears, not the inherent danger involved.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#284

Post by bildung »

bad_user wrote: post #282
pmart123 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exposure isn’t a bad thing. Eventually, kids have to learn. Growing up first in the city and then in the adjacent suburb, I would say kids who grew up solely in the city were much more mature by the time they were 18. Many kids who grew up in the suburbs were “looking for the thrill” versus being cognizant of reality. Too often in the US, parents seems to try and shelter kids form near-term dangers at all costs versu…

Children have to be children. Yes, you have to make them responsible, to have chores, to start treating them like adults early. But the necessity for exposure to " near-term dangers " is a very American thing to say and I believe that it is wrong. Yes, children growing up in big cities are more mature. And cynical. And depressed. The irony of the situation is that big cities are so dangerous nowadays that parents no…

I think you two are not talking about the exact same thing. In my understanding GP isn't at all opposed at kids being kids. Their point sounded more like being about autonomy.

Due to the mobility restrictions of the suburbs (everything can only reached by car) you as a parent are automatically managing more of the time of your kids: Picking them up at school, driving them to organized event 1 or 2 (sports for example) etc.

In the city it's easier for kids to do those things themselves: My kids went to school by themselves after a few weeks in first grade (school is only a few hundred meters away from home, though). This has a bunch of other consequences: They can autonomously meet peers earlier, so they have more free and unstructured time together etc. All in all less parental involvement, and the kids have to (and want to!) organize more by themselves.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#285

Post by stevenjgarner »

I don't live in a big city or an urban area. I live in a small midwestern town, population 10,000. I paid $40,000 for my 4-bedroom house. I don't have a mortgage. I have TWO gigabit optical Internet connections for which I pay less than $70 per month - since the 1990's! I work remotely only occasionally visiting the fancy places you all speak of, wondering why you put up with what you put up with. I employ several programmers, including very talented folks from Russia and Colombia. I have taught open source full stack development for a few years now, with graduates getting positions at the top silicon valley firms. You'd be amazed how many start-ups have succeeded from towns like this. I only recently put a lock on my house - not because I did not feel safe - more an IoT thing. I have raised 5 kids here. My town has a village square, and yes a Walmart. My town has more than 30 miles of bike/hiking/skiing trails. Parks everywhere. There is a sportsplex less than 1,000 steps from my house with 3 full size basketball courts, indoor pool, outdoor pool, hot tub, 200m indoor track, comprehensive weight/exercise/fitness facilities, etc. Less than 1,000 steps in another direction is a modern library with a great kids section. This is not an unusual town. There are many like it in America. Do they have problems? Sure. They are the places that teenagers used to grow up to move away from. Those kids are coming back now and having families of their own, with "actual births".

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#286

Post by chha »

alltakendamned wrote: post #274
notzuck wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We both earn large professional salaries but decided to go to the suburbs for kids. We have 2 beaches within 20 minutes of us, we have parks, cinemas, out door water parks, outdoor pools, skate parks plus half an acre of garden and a big house where the kids can have a music room, a playroom, separate room for computer games and we get a very nice home office. I don't know why anyone would want to stay in the cramped…

so forgive my ignorance as this might be a cultural difference, but why have separate rooms for each play function? I mean, isn't a play room and a computer game room and even a music room just overlapping ?

Depends on the number of kids and what they do. Playing drums in the same room as someone trying to focus on a high-adrenaline multiplayer FPS would never work (at least not very well). Separating into multiple rooms also allows kids to bring friends over and do stuff without disturbing the other kids. Also; kids needs time to be alone, multiple rooms allows them to do stuff by themselves without having be with others.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#287

Post by nikanj »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #285

I don't live in a big city or an urban area. I live in a small midwestern town, population 10,000. I paid $40,000 for my 4-bedroom house. I don't have a mortgage. I have TWO gigabit optical Internet connections for which I pay less than $70 per month - since the 1990's! I work remotely only occasionally visiting the fancy places you all speak of, wondering why you put up with what you put up with. I employ several pr…

Are there jobs in that town? That seems to make or break a small town.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#288

Post by yason »

notzuck wrote: post #230
jinushaun wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m raising a child in NYC right now. What is this dystopia you are describing? It’s the opposite of my personal experience. NYC is such a kid friendly place to raise kids: Museums, zoos, aquariums, free events for kids, concerts just for babies, parks, swimming pools, little league, soccer league, skate parks, etc… we have it all. I can’t fathom how people raise kids in the suburbs. They must be so bored… You have a…

We both earn large professional salaries but decided to go to the suburbs for kids. We have 2 beaches within 20 minutes of us, we have parks, cinemas, out door water parks, outdoor pools, skate parks plus half an acre of garden and a big house where the kids can have a music room, a playroom, separate room for computer games and we get a very nice home office. I don't know why anyone would want to stay in the cramped…

We have 2 beaches within 20 minutes of us

Walking or... driving?

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#289

Post by stevenjgarner »

nikanj wrote: post #287
stevenjgarner wrote: post #285

I don't live in a big city or an urban area. I live in a small midwestern town, population 10,000. I paid $40,000 for my 4-bedroom house. I don't have a mortgage. I have TWO gigabit optical Internet connections for which I pay less than $70 per month - since the 1990's! I work remotely only occasionally visiting the fancy places you all speak of, wondering why you put up with what you put up with. I employ several pr…

Are there jobs in that town? That seems to make or break a small town.

Yes there are jobs. I have clients in small towns all over the midwest and there are plenty of jobs in all those towns. It is so very hard to find employees willing to work! I think my point though is that given the nature of this HN space, most of the "readers" have the skills to work remotely from anywhere. Make yourself a valuable and treasured resource and employers will want you to work, even if it is over a connection. I think the key metric is not whether jobs are available in a small town, but rather the nature of available Internet access - thanks to the decades old USDA Broadband initiative, many small towns across America have better Internet than larger cities, especially cities monopolized by multiple-system operators (MSO's). Many small towns do not. That is where one needs to be selective.

Re: America’s urban rebirth is missing actual births

#290

Post by CalRobert »

jinushaun wrote: post #67
madhadron wrote: post #14

I look at it a little differently. The urban cores in the USA are actively hostile places for anyone to be. You step outside your door...into an empty hallway of doors. You take an elevator or stairs down to a place with a few mailboxes, then step outside. Outside, you have a narrow strip of concrete, possibly with a few trees, that you are allowed to inhabit. Beyond it is as asphalt with two ton steel contraptions w…

I’m raising a child in NYC right now. What is this dystopia you are describing? It’s the opposite of my personal experience. NYC is such a kid friendly place to raise kids: Museums, zoos, aquariums, free events for kids, concerts just for babies, parks, swimming pools, little league, soccer league, skate parks, etc… we have it all. I can’t fathom how people raise kids in the suburbs. They must be so bored… You have a…

Annnd asphalt ribbons of death just outside your home everywhere you go.

Kids used to be able to play in the street in the city.

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