33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured • Hacker News Board

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#101

Post by pmlnr » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #95

pmlnr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> well regarded for its safety and peacefulness Here, dig deeper: http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201904170050.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/world/asia/japan-rape.htm... https://web.archive.org/web/20190421032136/http://japaneseru...

It's not a competition...

There are boatloads of people out there who idolize Japan for peacefulness and never actually read about reality there. I'm just simply tired of the "ah, but Japan" attitude.

BTW, in my opinion, Japan is ~20years "ahead" of socilogical problems of the West - such as extreme isolation of elderly, young glued to the screens not even leaving a flats because everything can be done online, etc - mostly because their 80s housing boom bubble burst in the 90s and not in 2008. But this is unrelated.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#102

Post by Thriptic » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #48

maeln wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting so little value in other people life is a mental illness. Its not a question of perception. Considering your intellectual / material property over someone life is being a sociopath.

It totally is a question of perception and philosophy. Death is literally a part of life. We all die. The value of life is what you make of it. The fact that this arsonist got roasted himself shows his perspective on the idea of "precious bodies" in general. He was wronged, palgiarized, steamrolled by an idomitable corporation and had no recourse. Je expressed in through corporeal action. You may disagree with the mo…

I'm not going to acknowledge the legitimacy of his motives because it's what he wants. He wants to be viewed as a martyr and to have his grievances heard and discussed, but killing 20+ people over stealing some IP (and not even a life changing innovation but a fucking manga) is categorically unacceptable in any society and is a disgusting act. Therefore, I will not even acknowledge that he has rational motives; he will be considered insane and disregarded as a fool, and I will move on without paying him or his "grand gesture" any mind. This is the ultimate punishment for an angry idealist who is demanding to be heard.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#103

Post by rangibaby » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #38

aikinai wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little three story building that looks like an apartment tucked into a residential street. And it's an animation studio. There's no way they have the size or resources to retain full-time security.

Something as simple as a lock on the entrances would've been enough deterrence, and that's not exactly resource-intensive. Judging by the downvotes, I may have given the impression that I've only worked in places with very high security with guards patrolling and such; that's not what I meant. I have worked in such offices, but I've never worked in one that didn't at least have a locked entrance that needed an access…

According to the news, the doors had keycard locks but they were opened for the day because of a meeting that involved a lot of visitors

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#104

Post by brlewis » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

sixQuarks wrote: post #59

goldenkey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It literally is a different world view. You only have to look at the Middle East.

I may not agree with you, but I do appreciate your viewpoint. I think you bring up valid points, and are being downvoted undeservedly.

The comments deserve all the downvotes they get and more, on two levels.

On the moral level, they value human life less than copyright.

On the intellectual level, they appeal to the idea of "valuing principles" while simultaneously throwing away the concept of principles because the universe doesn't obviously value them.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#105

Post by ilikehurdles » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

ianstallings wrote: post #99

gilrain wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa, suddenly racist. The vast, vast majority of people in the middle east value life just as much as anyone.

Are you seriously calling me a racist or are you joking? Edit: Sorry didn't see the greyed out comment above yours on my screen.

They weren't responding to you, but to goldenkey's flagged/dead comment.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#106

Post by edanm » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

m0llusk wrote: post #41

devilmoon wrote: post #28

Apparently the motivation for the attack was that "KyoAni has stolen something from the attacker", unconfirmed reports that the something in question was a Light Novel the attacker wrote but got rejected by KyoAni, which apparently then got turned into an original work by the studio (possibly stealing here and there from the LN or anyhow drawing inspiration from it) without crediting the attacker or compensating him.…

Intellectual property issues once again. People think they own ideas and glorify themselves as originators. In reality once an idea is communicated it is free. All people can really do is add value to an idea by promoting it, framing it, demonstrating it, aiding in its application, and so on. Yet here intellectual property has scaled beyond mere value into critical relevance and even a person's identity itself. An in…

(I'm going to disagree with you in my comment, about your specific thoughts - but given the context of the thread we're talking in, let me be clear - this is a horrific attack that happened no matter what you think about IP, and nothing I'm saying below should in any way make it seem like I think otherwise. This kind of violence is horrible, and not the answer to anything).

> Yet here intellectual property has scaled beyond mere value into critical relevance and even a person's identity itself.

I mean, do you really think JK Rowling shouldn't consider "I wrote Harry Potter" to be part of her identity?

> In reality once an idea is communicated it is free.

If by "in reality" you mean "in nature, given that we don't have a government to change it", then, yes, of course, if I tell you an idea and you decide to use it, there is little I can do to stop you. But that's exactly why we have governments and laws - to not live only by nature, but to do things that we think makes more sense, both on a moral level, and a pure "what's better for society" level.

And say what you want, I think most people don't share your feeling that someone's work being copied without them getting any compensation for it is somehow more moral, and should be the way things work. I certainly don't share that intuition.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#107

Post by Aeolun » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #61

goldenkey wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It totally is a question of perception and philosophy. Death is literally a part of life. We all die. The value of life is what you make of it. The fact that this arsonist got roasted himself shows his perspective on the idea of "precious bodies" in general. He was wronged, palgiarized, steamrolled by an idomitable corporation and had no recourse. Je expressed in through corporeal action. You may disagree with the mo…

The people dead did not choose to die. They were killed by someone. And that person killed people and intended to kill people. By our society's definition, this person is mentally ill- they are ill because they have decided to kill people when their own life is not in imminent danger. If one's morals justifies one to kill when one's own life or others' lives are not in danger, then they are mentally ill by our societ…

> Are they mentally ill or do they have a different philosophy?

By the discussed points I would have to say it’s both. It’s certainly a different philosophy, but it would most definitely be classified as mentally ill.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#108

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

pmlnr wrote: post #101

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a competition...

There are boatloads of people out there who idolize Japan for peacefulness and never actually read about reality there. I'm just simply tired of the "ah, but Japan" attitude. BTW, in my opinion, Japan is ~20years "ahead" of socilogical problems of the West - such as extreme isolation of elderly, young glued to the screens not even leaving a flats because everything can be done online, etc - mostly because their 80s h…

[deleted]

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#109

Post by Aeolun » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

s9w wrote: post #91

lunchables wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>might be quite an overreaction, but is at least in the realm of understandable, no? You think it is "understandable" to burn down a building because someone stole your work? If someone did that I would call them "crazy". I definitely see "mental stability" or "mental health" being a root cause here. Rational, healthy people do not respond in that way. Call it "temporary insanity" if you want.

Understanding the reasons for a crime does not excuse said crime, or say that you're ok with it. If someone robs a bank, I can understand the motivation: He wants money. If someone punches another, he might want to feel powerful. If someone rapes a woman he wants sex. And if someones believes that this company stole his money, I can understand his motivations to seek revenge. That does not mean it is right, just or s…

There is a lot of ways to retaliate against a company that do not involve setting fire to a building with 70 people inside.

This is pretty much the definition of crazy, though apparently not self destructive because they survived.

I fully expect the death penalty if he doesn’t prematurely manage to commit suicide though.

Re: 33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured

#110

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Jul 18, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

s9w wrote: post #91

lunchables wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>might be quite an overreaction, but is at least in the realm of understandable, no? You think it is "understandable" to burn down a building because someone stole your work? If someone did that I would call them "crazy". I definitely see "mental stability" or "mental health" being a root cause here. Rational, healthy people do not respond in that way. Call it "temporary insanity" if you want.

Understanding the reasons for a crime does not excuse said crime, or say that you're ok with it. If someone robs a bank, I can understand the motivation: He wants money. If someone punches another, he might want to feel powerful. If someone rapes a woman he wants sex. And if someones believes that this company stole his money, I can understand his motivations to seek revenge. That does not mean it is right, just or s…

That is a gross simplification of criminal motives and you should strike the thought in it's entirety from your mind and re-evaluate it from first principals.