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Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

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Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#11

Post by JackC »

Slightly different, but Adobe got me with an unintended annual renewal. For their annual plan billed monthly, there's no way to turn off autorenewal until the 12th month without losing access immediately and paying a penalty. They do send you reminder emails, which I missed, but it struck me as pretty abusive to require an opt-out exactly 11-12 months after signup to avoid being locked into a new one-year contract, with no way to opt out early. One of many forum threads about the policy:

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2536257

Ugh, I remember now how gross that felt at the time, to realize I was locked into the contract, couldn't cancel, and that the same thing was likely to happen again next year, because they built it that way on purpose. Blech.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#12

Post by motohagiography »

Try buying ads on linkedin and setting an amount you want to spend. It auto-renewed that amount, every day for weeks, without an email or even linkedin profile notification. It's an extremely shady dark pattern.

I lost well over $1000 to them before I discovered it and cancelled. Have fun getting a refund as well. In short, avoid.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#14

Post by pkd »

redwards510 wrote: post #5

I can't think of a single subscription service that does not auto-renew. Can you? Companies consider that a "feature" because it provides uninterrupted service. Is your beef with them because they didn't email you to let you know they were going to bill you for renewal? Do what I do. Never trust a company. Whenever you sign up for a recurring service or a free trial, add an event to your personal calendar that remind…

I can think of two. Letterboxd, and Pinboard. I pay for both.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#15

Post by btrettel »

redwards510 wrote: post #5

I can't think of a single subscription service that does not auto-renew. Can you? Companies consider that a "feature" because it provides uninterrupted service. Is your beef with them because they didn't email you to let you know they were going to bill you for renewal? Do what I do. Never trust a company. Whenever you sign up for a recurring service or a free trial, add an event to your personal calendar that remind…

Beeminder will apparently automatically stop charging you if you stop logging in to their service.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#16

Post by aosaigh »

tschwimmer wrote: post #9

I would go so far as to say that every single SaaS company in existence has autorenew. Literally the entire business model is built off of a predictable set of customers converting and renewing (and thus a predictable revenue stream). SaaS companies are also heavily incentivized to make it harder for you to cancel a trial. Yes, if you get down to it this is not in your interest but also it ends up being a relatively…

I wonder if my reaction to this is more based on how they implement auto-renew rather than the fact they do it at all, as I agree that companies need to have auto-renew for many reasons.

I just find something very unfair about a policy that doesn't warn you about a significant annual renewal coupled with the fact you aren't warned about it nor is it refundable (even if you immediately contact support). It feels like a very deliberate design. As I mentioned, other services have a much more honest and open approach to this, where they email a couple of days in advance warning you about the charge.

But maybe I'm just naive in this instance and should assume companies will do it (so plan around it)

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#17

Post by Scooty »

The other day I was stopped on the sidewalk by someone who told me they worked for a large environmental non profit that helps save endangered species. He asked if I would subscribe to help. I offered to make a donation and was told they I can't do a one time donation and they "really need subscribers". He even told me I could just cancel after the first payment.

Taking advantage of someone being forgetful is sleazy.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#18

Post by anant90 »

aosaigh wrote: post #7
redwards510 wrote: post #5

I can't think of a single subscription service that does not auto-renew. Can you? Companies consider that a "feature" because it provides uninterrupted service. Is your beef with them because they didn't email you to let you know they were going to bill you for renewal? Do what I do. Never trust a company. Whenever you sign up for a recurring service or a free trial, add an event to your personal calendar that remind…

I think I wasn't clear enough that this is an annual subscription of significant cost ($300). With that in mind I would absolutely expect them to email in advance reminding me of the charge (other similar services do). I agree that for something that is monthly, I wouldn't expect an email every month. Adding dates to the calendar and using giftcard/credit card are both good suggestions for the future.

Also, consider using a one-time Credit Card from https://privacy.com/

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#19

Post by pkd »

tschwimmer wrote: post #9

I would go so far as to say that every single SaaS company in existence has autorenew. Literally the entire business model is built off of a predictable set of customers converting and renewing (and thus a predictable revenue stream). SaaS companies are also heavily incentivized to make it harder for you to cancel a trial. Yes, if you get down to it this is not in your interest but also it ends up being a relatively…

Not every single one of them, but it's definitely rare to find auto renew turned off.
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