Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#1

Post by aosaigh » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

For anyone considering subscribing to Pluralsight, be aware that they will not inform you of their auto-renewal policy, and will charge you once your subscription is up for annual renewal without warning. In my case, this auto-renewal has cost me $300.

This is a serious dark-pattern and I'm surprised companies still employ it. It's so short-sighted. I emailed their support and they offer a "promotional" $50 refund as a token.

Are there any other companies that do this? In contrast, Egghead.io (which in a similar space) sends an email in advance warning you of the renewal as well as how to cancel it.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#2

Post by dangrossman » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

Did you come through a shady landing page somewhere? From what I see, you cannot sign up without being informed of their auto renewal policy, and they do not charge you without warning, which were your two complaints. Every signup button I could find on their public website says "10-day free trial then $X/month, billed monthly/annually" immediately beside or below the button. Clicking any of these buttons brings you to a payment page that asks your credit card info. That page says you'll receive an email reminder the day before your card is charged.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#3

Post by aosaigh » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #2

Did you come through a shady landing page somewhere? From what I see, you cannot sign up without being informed of their auto renewal policy, and they do not charge you without warning, which were your two complaints. Every signup button I could find on their public website says "10-day free trial then $X/month, billed monthly/annually" immediately beside or below the button. Clicking any of these buttons brings you…

Sorry, didn't explain properly. I had subscribed already for the first year ($300). My renewal date for this next year came without warning and I was charged again, without recourse. I updated the text to clarify.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#4

Post by petercooper » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #2

Did you come through a shady landing page somewhere? From what I see, you cannot sign up without being informed of their auto renewal policy, and they do not charge you without warning, which were your two complaints. Every signup button I could find on their public website says "10-day free trial then $X/month, billed monthly/annually" immediately beside or below the button. Clicking any of these buttons brings you…

"That page says you'll receive an email reminder the day before your card is charged."

Is that every time they charge you? Or just after the end of the trial? I think it should be a law (or at least an ethical standard) to email all customers in advance of automated billing (or at least have a 24 hour cooling off period after such a charge).

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#5

Post by redwards510 » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

I can't think of a single subscription service that does not auto-renew. Can you? Companies consider that a "feature" because it provides uninterrupted service.

Is your beef with them because they didn't email you to let you know they were going to bill you for renewal?

Do what I do. Never trust a company. Whenever you sign up for a recurring service or a free trial, add an event to your personal calendar that reminds you to cancel. Or use a gift card with a limited balance.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#6

Post by lemax » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

Most companies in my experience will refund you fully with an email to support. SaaS companies expect a lot of churn even with auto-renew, and I think the cost of a bad rap outweighs a lenient refund policy.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#7

Post by aosaigh » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

redwards510 wrote: post #5

I can't think of a single subscription service that does not auto-renew. Can you? Companies consider that a "feature" because it provides uninterrupted service. Is your beef with them because they didn't email you to let you know they were going to bill you for renewal? Do what I do. Never trust a company. Whenever you sign up for a recurring service or a free trial, add an event to your personal calendar that remind…

I think I wasn't clear enough that this is an annual subscription of significant cost ($300). With that in mind I would absolutely expect them to email in advance reminding me of the charge (other similar services do). I agree that for something that is monthly, I wouldn't expect an email every month.

Adding dates to the calendar and using giftcard/credit card are both good suggestions for the future.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#8

Post by netbuddha » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

I definitely can sympathize with you on having a $300 deduction without warning but this is how 95% of online business and services bill. You are hard pressed to find a business application that is not subscription with auto renew. At one time I said I would never buy an app that is subscription based. It did not take long for me to realize I would have to get rid of my computer because I have no apps.

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#9

Post by tschwimmer » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 11:00 PM UTC

I would go so far as to say that every single SaaS company in existence has autorenew. Literally the entire business model is built off of a predictable set of customers converting and renewing (and thus a predictable revenue stream).

SaaS companies are also heavily incentivized to make it harder for you to cancel a trial. Yes, if you get down to it this is not in your interest but also it ends up being a relatively positive tradeoff. You can either have free, no commitment trials with autorenew and all the economic activity that they bring (probably hundreds of thousands of jobs, hundreds of great, useful products) or you can have no autoconvert and also basically no tech sector. I suggest you set up a calendar reminder when you sign up for a free trial or use a temporary credit card (many solutions are a quick search away).

Re: Tell HN: Pluralsight and the dark-pattern of auto-renewals

#10

Post by bargl » Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 11:08 PM UTC

I use Pluralsight and I love their videos.

I had a subscription I'd paid for and then I changed companies. My new Company provided a subscription. So I called up and they refunded me the prorated subscription.

I see you emailed customer support, but I'd instead call them. You'll probably have better luck with a human listening. Maybe not but it's worth a try for $300.

An Email should have done it. It's crazy if you do call them and it works, but sometimes that does the trick.