Google Protest Leader Leaves • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#371

Post by paxys » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #13

I thought this story had already been reported a month ago. But no, I was wrong, that was the other organizer of the Google Protests, Claire Stapleton: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/07/google-wa... So to clarify, both of the female Google employees who lead/organized the protests have now left because they say they faced retaliation. That looks very bad for Google.

Retaliation or not, if you are so publicly vocal about your employer what other path is there? In fact her activism is going to be more legitimate now that she is not getting paid by Google at the same time.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#372

Post by damnyou » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #366

damnyou wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We just asked you yesterday to stop taking HN threads further into flamewar. We ban accounts that do that. We have to, because doing that destroys the curiosity this site exists for. Would you please review the site guidelines and take the spirit of this site more to heart when posting here? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I want to understand this fully. You care more about me pointing out the obvious political context we live in than about the person downthread literally comparing being gay to pedophilia.

Will you, in your capacity as a moderator for one of the most influential forums on the internet, actively care about justice, or will you just protect the status quo? Pick a side.

(Keep in mind that Scott Alexander made the exact same mistake of trying to be neutral rather than choosing to be on the side of justice. Now his blog is overrun by fascist trolls. Hacker News is not far behind.)

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#373

Post by quibbler » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

Afton wrote: post #341

quibbler wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She didn't report those incidents. She merely organized a generic protest.

I have no idea why her reporting or not reporting these incidents is relevant. Also not sure why this the protest was 'generic'. Your comment comes off as dismissive without any substance. Please feel free to elaborate.

Because it doesn't make sense to protect anybody who mentions an incident of sexual harassment from being fired. Because then everybody would be protected from being fired, because everybody can tell a story of some incident they read in the news. Presumably the law is supposed to protect people who have been harassed and report it.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#374

Post by lawnchair_larry » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #354

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know at Google hates these “protests” and can’t stand the entitlement. It sounds to me like they are a vocal minority. This has nothing to do with transparency and speaking out against your employer. The issue is not that they have a voice, it’s how they choose to use it.

You seem to know weird subsets of people at different companies. If we weren't ostensibly in the same field, I wouldn't comment (because of course two random people on HN would know different people at Google). But we are, and the Google security people I talk to are more supportive of the protests; several are now on the job market because of it. I feel pretty comfortable with how representative the people I talk to…

Yes, it’s definitely me that knows “weird subsets” of people, whatever that is supposed to mean. You’re immune to bubbles, and I am in one, right? Or is that a sneaky way of saying, “The people I know don’t think that, so I suspect you made that up”?

This is a silly thread, but for what it’s worth, I have not talked to anyone at Google in a security role about this issue.

I’ll be more blunt. I am highly skeptical that anyone in security there quit their job over the protests. But, I have no reason to doubt that your sample supports the protests.

Do keep in mind though that most people who don’t support them are keenly aware that going near any activism topic, especially at Google, is personal and professional jeopardy. Many people think they can’t even debate these things without running the risk of being on the receiving end of the scorched earth tactics employed by activists. And I’m not even talking about conservatives (of whom I know very few in tech, if any).

It’s not that they think it’s great that Rubin got dumptrucks of money, but the mentality is that if you take any issue with any of the demands or tactics, or the frequency with which they dominate the focus of employees trying to do their work, you’re suddenly a misogynistic transphobic racist enemy of the people.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#375

Post by KirinDave » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

repolfx wrote: post #295

KirinDave wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is untrue. You're not actually reading the salient facts. Radical reduction in job responsibility and opportunity IS retaliation.

See my other comment. But yes, it is true. You cannot be "retaliated against" if you aren't engaging in revelations of illegal behaviour. These people were not doing the latter, when you look at the details. They were merely protesting against things they didn't like, but which aren't illegal, and in one case, didn't exist at all (Google underpaid men, not women). If there's no illegal behaviour, there's no whistlebl…

Please see the other half of this thread where a real lawyer explains the specifics. Given her involvement in the women's march, there are legal considerations.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#376

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #37

kodz4 wrote: post #21

Interesting to see as polarization increases, as it will given the environment, whether a company can break into two along political lines. Has that happened before in history? I wouldn't mind a seperate conservative google and a liberal google. Let the quality of the product offered decide which is better.

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. Comments like this lead to train wrecks. Presumably the trains are shipping tires because after they wreck we get tire fires.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#377

Post by paxys » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:46 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #5

Google works like crazy to hire all of the smartest and the best people, but do they really need them? Billions and billions in shareholder value could be extracted by hiring a bunch of mid-tier Java programmers and having them farm Ad Words for the next decade, until the first competition shows up.

And what happens when the competition shows up? IBM, Oracle, VMWare, Cisco, RIM, ebay etc. were all where Google is now, and by the time they realized they couldn't compete any more it was too late. Google can only counter these threats by keeping the smartest people in the industry employed and happy.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#378

Post by dang » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

r3bl wrote: post #273

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand the response. Is your claim that, if something bad happens to a woman without simultaneously happening to a man, that automatically makes it a gender bias issue?

You do understand it, you just refuse to understand it. But to answer your question, yes. If enough women were affected that they felt compelled to step out, and men didn't, that's clearly a gender bias issue.

Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've done that repeatedly in this thread, including crossing into personal attack. That helps nothing and only makes this place worse, regardless of how bad another comment is or how right you feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#379

Post by KirinDave » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #350

KirinDave wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several people from Google here speaking out in support and literally thousands of people stood with the walkout. So it doesn't seem like a "small minority" unless you know a hell of a lot of people.

1000 employees is 1%. Even if 10,000 showed up, which they did not, that is still a small minority.

Unfortunately I cannot reveal real numbers to reveal the breakdown, but even a cursory modeling of this with Bayesian techniques suggests more than a tiny minority of people hold the sentiment in question.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#380

Post by lonelappde » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #123

damnyou wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why only in their spare time?

Because you're paid by Google...to work at Google? And other employees shouldn't have to be fed your politics constantly just because they have to show up at work every day just like you do.

Employees sign non-moonlighting agreements that makes the employer own all their work related ideas. It would be a violation of contract to withhold those ideas.