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Google Protest Leader Leaves

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Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#341

Post by Afton »

quibbler wrote: post #323
Afton wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the actual article: ```She was one of six women who organized massive walkouts after reports that Google paid handsome sums to executives accused of sexual harassment.```

She didn't report those incidents. She merely organized a generic protest.

I have no idea why her reporting or not reporting these incidents is relevant. Also not sure why this the protest was 'generic'. Your comment comes off as dismissive without any substance. Please feel free to elaborate.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#342

Post by [deleted] »

qntty wrote: post #225
jlawson wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one paying for the work, you're entitled to say what the work will be. In this case 'you' is Google shareholders, through their representatives. Nobody is entitled to be paid to do what they choose. If you want to do something for your own personal reasons, do it off the clock.

There's no good reason to think like this. If you're the one doing the work, you're entitled to say collectively with your fellow employees what it should be.

[deleted]

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#343

Post by username90 »

qntty wrote: post #336
jlawson wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely in your rights to get together with your fellow employees - or anyone else - to do anything you want. And others are entitled not to pay you to do things they don't want you to do. Nobody is forced to do things they don't want. Nobody is forced to pay money to others. But employment is an agreement between people. The employer agrees to pay, and the other agrees to follow directions of the employer…

The value created by employees rightfully belongs to employees and should be created on their terms. It isn't employees who are hired by managers, it's managers who are hired by employees to manage and sell the things they create. Employees ought to have the right to dictate the terms that their managers are being hired on.

If you want an equal relationship then go work for shares in a startup with no salary, however most workers favors certain money. Employment agreements as they look today fundamentally favors the employee over the employer, you are trading certain value "an exact amount of $$$ per month" for uncertain value "some unspecified amount work might get produced which maybe can get transformed to money in the future". If the uncertain value produced is too low then the company has no reason to continue betting on your future, so they end the agreement.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#344

Post by fao_ »

xyzzyz wrote: post #340
jakelazaroff wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why the burden of proof would be higher for this claim than the preceding one.

Before I left Google, I looked her up, and none of her ladder, none of her supervisors, none of the other reportees of her immediate supervisor etc. had anything to do with AI ethics. She was originally hired as a Program Manager on Google Docs. In this light, I view your statement as requiring some backing.

So provide some evidence. I could easily say I worked for XYZ and say the same thing you have.

I worked for the White House as Press Secretary and got an email from Trump drunkenly claiming he ran someone over.

I worked as senior advisor to the Shadow Health Secretary in 2020 and helped leak internal communiques covering numerous malpractice suites.

Blah blah blah. It's all words until you show evidence. It's hypocritical to demand evidence from someone else without showing your own. If you don't have any to show, then that's your problem, not theirs.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#345

Post by gdy »

departure wrote: post #307
gdy wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Her work on AI ethics" What exactly was that?

Do you not know how to use google? " rel="nofollow">https://ainowinstitute.org/research.html>

You missed the word 'exactly'. Can you summarize her work so that it doesn't sound trivial or bogus?

Just looking at the titles I expect something similar in quality to articles debunked here: https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.09866

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#346

Post by joshuamorton »

xyzzyz wrote: post #322
joshuamorton wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. Her day to day work is/was in the AI bias and ethics space, even within google.

Why do you think so? Do you have a source of any of her supervisors saying that?

My source is the same document that the other poster mentioned.

When did you leave? Because you know, people switch jobs, and her role at Google at the time of leaving was leading the Open Research Institute, which you might imagine has nothing to do with drive.

But no I'm not going to share confidential information just because you don't believe me.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#347

Post by dang »

coliveira wrote: post #131
icxa wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rephrased slightly differently: The majority want opportunities that will advance their careers, increase their stock values, and keep the company doing well (which usually means bigger bonuses)

Rephrasing even more: there is a number of rats that are capable of doing anything to advance their careers and to make more money. When a few people appear that value their conscience more than money, these rats will fight them.

Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines? They ask you not to take HN threads further into flamewar and not to call ante-upping names like "rats".

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#348

Post by Merrill »

skybrian wrote: post #335
Merrill wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I googled Meredith Whittaker before commenting. She joined Google in 2006 after getting a bachelor's degree from Berkeley, apparently in literature and psychoanalytic theory. By 2012 she appears to have been a program manager in initiatives regarding internet measurements. So far I haven't found any references to products or reports from the Open Research Group, which she appears to have founded sometime prior t…

I only know a little about it, but it seems like financial companies commonly have a permanent compliance department? https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/compliancedepartment.as...

This is true, but the function of the compliance department is to ensure that the company operates within the boundaries set by law and regulation. They typically operate with the authority and access to top management. They would report incidents of non-compliance to management and much more rarely to a regulator, very rarely to the media. If members of the compliance department report to the regulators or public they are covered by the relevant whistleblower statutes. I can't recall members of the compliance department organizing other employees to demonstrate.

Another organization is the quality control department of a manufacturer. They also tend to report independently to top management, and they function similarly.

Re: Google Protest Leader Leaves

#350

Post by lawnchair_larry »

KirinDave wrote: post #242
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone I know at Google hates these “protests” and can’t stand the entitlement. It sounds to me like they are a vocal minority. This has nothing to do with transparency and speaking out against your employer. The issue is not that they have a voice, it’s how they choose to use it.

There are several people from Google here speaking out in support and literally thousands of people stood with the walkout. So it doesn't seem like a "small minority" unless you know a hell of a lot of people.

1000 employees is 1%. Even if 10,000 showed up, which they did not, that is still a small minority.
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