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Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#371

Post by mikeash »

__sr__ wrote: post #338
mikeash wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has a profit of over $11 billion last year. They can definitely afford to pay their warehouse workers better.

Did you actually try doing the math? $11 billion divided over 650k employees is roughly $17k which amounts to $75 per day assuming the employee works around 225 days a year which in turn amounts to less than $10 an hour assuming the employee works for 8 hours a day.

So you’re saying they could afford to give their workers a $5/hour raise and still retain a healthy profit? Why the snide question at the beginning, then?

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#372

Post by mikeash »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #320
mikeash wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t matter if your claim is actually correct or not? That’s a hell of an argument. I’m responsible for the tips waiters receive from me. Amazon is responsible for the wages their workers receive from them. Makes sense to me.

>Doesn’t matter if your claim is actually correct or not? That’s a hell of an argument. If you eat out once in a lifetime or every day an effective wage can still be calculated. In NY or CA you are talking something like 30 - 50 dollars a meal[0], even more if you want to provide healthcare and all the rest. Its likely you aren't leaving $20 - $50 bills on the table for your morning coffee so why don't you think bari…

I don’t see what giving myself $50 for making coffee has to do with any of this.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#373

Post by rayiner »

_khau wrote: post #368
rayiner wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has been a miracle for everyone, not just a few. It’s true that inequality has increased over the last 30 years: https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/bangladesh/income-distribut... . The income share of the top 10% has grown from 22% to 28%. And the share of the bottom 20% has dropped from 10% to 8%. But 8% of a number that’s 6x bigger is way better than 10% of a number that’s 1/6 the size.

> Capitalism has been a miracle for everyone, not just a few. Capitalism has had demonstrably terrible effects for many people all over the world without the luck of being born in a country or even a social class with enough economic clout to dictate favourable terms in trade agreements. The conflict and genocide in East Timor was driven by capitalist Indonesia (a US ally) and colonial greed. Of course this conflict…

Your examples are terrible. East Timor is a classic case of conflict based on language and religion (Indonesia is Muslim, East Timor is Portuguese-speaking and Catholic.) Your water example involves a private company being forced to raise rates to pay for a dam that it was forced to build as part of a government I funded mandate.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#374

Post by dennisgorelik »

scarejunba wrote: post #352
TallGuyShort wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is reminding me of a discussion about Facebook's content enforcement, where I still don't understand the argument: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20222594 . Pressuring people to miss bathroom breaks is wrong, I'd agree - I'm all for that being legally punishable if it isn't already. But the argument gets to a point where people are simply saying that the job inherently sucks anyway, and the people who are…

I hate saying this, but it comes from a place of privilege. If you've never not had a job, you think just banning bad jobs will mean everyone has a good job. If you've been unemployed, you know you'd rather have a job and have it reformed through continuous work than be unemployed. The problem, though, is that there are people who have never not had jobs who nonetheless have opinions on what the baseline job should b…

People who are better at finding and keeping jobs -- are, typically, against minimum wage increase (because they better understand the consequences of such restriction).

Ironically, people who struggle with keeping a job -- are more likely to shoot themselves in the foot by supporting minimum wage increase.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#375

Post by dennisgorelik »

lowercased wrote: post #185
influx wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is paying above minimum wage already. What do you suggest they should be paid?

Not everyone else is. People may put up with the 'above average' amazon because everything else in the area is still paying closer to minimum wage. If min wage was raised, it might make it easier to say 'no' to the amazon warehouse gig.

Quite the opposite: minimum wage increase will eliminate many low-skilled jobs and will make it harder "to say 'no' to the amazon warehouse gig".

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#376

Post by dennisgorelik »

sschueller wrote: post #364
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you just raise the minimum wage. We arrived at this point because those with money use it to influence government to their exclusive benefit.

Sadly companies have found loop holes like forcing people into 1099 positions or just sub-contracting jobs to firms that then pay below minimum wage. So you will find companies that claim they already pay way above minimum wage but it's just PR.

It is fortunate that companies found these 1099 loopholes. Without these loopholes, low-skilled candidates would have much harder time to find and keep their jobs.

It is amazing how many commenters on Hacker News do NOT understand basic economic model of supply and demand.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#377

Post by rayiner »

anigbrowl wrote: post #351
rayiner wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism has been a miracle for everyone, not just a few. It’s true that inequality has increased over the last 30 years: https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/bangladesh/income-distribut... . The income share of the top 10% has grown from 22% to 28%. And the share of the bottom 20% has dropped from 10% to 8%. But 8% of a number that’s 6x bigger is way better than 10% of a number that’s 1/6 the size.

Focusing at the bottom end, a 20% wealth hit is a really big problem for poor people. And just because they're well-off compared to other countries or previous periods in history is meaningless if they have solvency issues in the present. Being flat broke in our advanced technological society is a serious hardship and can not be measured in simplistic absolutes.

It’s not a 20% reduction in wealth. It’s an 8% share of an income pool that’s six times bigger versus a 10% share of an income pool that’s much smaller.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#378

Post by fao_ »

zaksoup wrote: post #54
fao_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company cannot pay it's workers properly then, to be honest, it really shouldn't exist.

This so much. All of this analysis is predicated on the idea that Amazon has made this value for its owners through legitimate means and not by underpaying, overworking, and dehumanizing vast swathes of their workforce. It's so bizarre to me that people think it's a reasonable argument to make that "X company couldn't do Y if they payed better" and the response is just a giant shrug and "I guess their workers will ha…

You're getting downvoted but your point is bang on. I don't think people realise how horrible the conditions in Amazon's warehouses are. A year or so ago they hired ambulances to wait outside rather than turning the AC on in the warehouse. They would rather their workers risk death as opposed to paying money to cool them.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#379

Post by tekknik »

chasontherobot wrote: post #333
dehrmann wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? In countries with higher minimum wages, McDonald's uses kiosks for ordering. I'm guessing, but it feels like 1/3 of fast food staff mans the registers.

Do you have a citation for this? Tokyo has a high minimum wage (and low enough unemployment that most employers have to pay more than minimum wage), but I've yet to see an automated kiosk here. Though in support of your point, when I went to Korea last year there was a large number of automated kiosks, and I know the minimum wage there is fairly high as well. So, Japan's lack of those kiosks may have to do with a pre…

I haven't been to Japan in many years, but they had plenty of kiosks for ordering food from restaurants. You put in money, hit the button next to the pic of the food you want, it gives you a ticket and you take it to the cook.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#380

Post by ionised »

rayiner wrote: post #373
_khau wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capitalism has been a miracle for everyone, not just a few. Capitalism has had demonstrably terrible effects for many people all over the world without the luck of being born in a country or even a social class with enough economic clout to dictate favourable terms in trade agreements. The conflict and genocide in East Timor was driven by capitalist Indonesia (a US ally) and colonial greed. Of course this conflict…

Your examples are terrible. East Timor is a classic case of conflict based on language and religion (Indonesia is Muslim, East Timor is Portuguese-speaking and Catholic.) Your water example involves a private company being forced to raise rates to pay for a dam that it was forced to build as part of a government I funded mandate.

My examples are so bad that you had to deliberately mischaracterise the first and third, and completely ignore the second.

Kudos.

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