Why did we wait so long for the bicycle? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#411

Post by eggie » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:21 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #100

Animats wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. And one point that cannot be stressed enough. Good steel, in quantity, only goes back to 1880. Lots of things that "could have been built in antiquity" foundered on that basic fact. Before Bessemer, steel was as exotic as titanium is now. The alternatives are not good. Cast iron? Too heavy and too brittle. Wrought iron? Maybe, but not that great. Lead? Too soft. Brass? Could work, but expensive. A king's kid m…

Good steel would only be strictly needed for axles. Bearings could have been polished and oiled wood. The frame, wood. The hinge of the front wheel, brass or another small bit of steel. Transmission could be a leather belt. Wheels, wood again. Would such a device somehow emulate a modern bicycle? Very likely. Would such a device be practical, reliable, fast, to say nothing of comfort? I greatly doubt it.

And the chain. The chain has more pieces in it than the rest of the bicycle by a significant margin. A safety bicycle could never have been created with out modern precision mechanical engineering and production.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#412

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

pushpop wrote: post #372

WalterBright wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that is necessary. I built a working electric motor in cub scouts using several feet of wire, tape, some iron nails, some sheet metal cut from tin cans, a wood board to mount it on, and a battery. Tools required: tin snips and a hammer. A battery can be made from a jar, lemon juice, and two electrodes. Believe me, as an 8 year old, my skills were limited to using a hammer to mash my thumb with. :-) Electromag…

I’m both impressed and have learned something new. Thank you :)

I found a variant that uses magnets:

https://www.bu.edu/gk12/tommy/Electric_motors.pdf

The version I built was far simpler, and used electromagnets instead of the magnets, but you can see the general idea.

I didn't design it, I don't know where the Den Mothers got the design from. But I found it fascinating, as you could see and feel how it worked.

I built several of them. One day, I got a little bolder and replaced the battery with an A/C cord. The motor buzzed loudly and burst into flames. I learned about alternating current that day :-)

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#413

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:24 AM UTC

monktastic1 wrote: post #367

WalterBright wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a reductionist viewpoint I once tried to figure out how to make iron from nothing. There are several "from scratch" guides on the internet, but all of them include "buy these needed chemicals from a supply house".

You tried to make an element from... nothing?

Nothing provided by civilization. It's the old "you're dropped naked into the wilderness 10,000 years in the past" challenge and have to make iron to impress the tribe so they won't eat you.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#414

Post by juanpicardo » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:30 AM UTC

This seems to assume that the current bicycle design is obvious and inevitable, but that is not true. The bicycle went through a lot of different designs before we got the "safety bicycle" in the 1880s. Here is a small video showing some previous designs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI6lgUlEUFU

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#415

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:32 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #402

TeMPOraL wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because "unused muscle atrophy" applies very much to our technology as well. A lot of knowledge surrounding technological processes isn't really captured beyond institutional culture and individual memory. So if there isn't demand for some specific technology, the capacity and knowledge to build it will wither and die with the organizations and people who built it. We can't do a Saturn V today. We might be able to do…

You should write all this up on a single place, it's very interesting.

I just might put it up on my blog. Need to collect references for the things I've been saying first.

I first need to finish and ask someone to proofread my long overdue post on my views about advertising industry.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#416

Post by ForHackernews » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:33 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #66

Excel_Wizard wrote: post #29

>Yet it was a simple mechanical invention As a mechanical engineer, this statement baffled me. All manufactured technology exists in the context of the manufacturing capabilities available to the designer. The manufacturing tech had to be tremendously complicated before a decent bike could be made. Hollow steel tubes aren't simple. Ball bearings aren't simple. There is a reductionist viewpoint among "theory" people t…

Right. And one point that cannot be stressed enough. Good steel, in quantity, only goes back to 1880. Lots of things that "could have been built in antiquity" foundered on that basic fact. Before Bessemer, steel was as exotic as titanium is now. The alternatives are not good. Cast iron? Too heavy and too brittle. Wrought iron? Maybe, but not that great. Lead? Too soft. Brass? Could work, but expensive. A king's kid m…

You can make a decent bicycle out of wood (albeit with modern manufacturing): http://www.makery.info/en/2018/03/06/le-top-10-des-velos-en-...

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#417

Post by rawland » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

In the frame of my PhD defense talk I once created a

    Rough timeline for the development of the bicycle:

https://img42.com/sAN_u

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#418

Post by rjtavares » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

kevinstubbs wrote: post #399

gamedori wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also why the protection of supply chains and international trade is essential. The cause of the Dark Ages was the collapse of the security surrounding the Roman road network, making trade hazardous, and subsequent reversion to local production of everything resulting in the loss of technological prowess. In our current economy, that reversion would be even more painful. In the short term, as much as I hate th…

Your first paragraph is very interesting. Got a link or book you could recommend to learn more?

The Hardcore History episode "Thor's Angels" goes quite a bit into that territory. It covers period between the fall of the Western Roman Empire until the formation of the Holy Roman Empire.

For fans of that podcast, it's one of the best single episodes. Dan Carlin has a particular style, which is not for everyone, but fans know what to expect.

https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-41-thors-...

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#419

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 10:06 AM UTC

It's funny that what I expected this article to be is to explain the seemingly rising interested in bicycle as an urban transport today

I don't have any data, but I definitely feel a trend for moving to more compact and energy efficient personal vehicles and I really wish it gathers more and more momentum.

Re: Why did we wait so long for the bicycle?

#420

Post by StavrosK » Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 10:06 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #415

StavrosK wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write all this up on a single place, it's very interesting.

I just might put it up on my blog. Need to collect references for the things I've been saying first. I first need to finish and ask someone to proofread my long overdue post on my views about advertising industry.

I can proofread if you want.