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'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

bbc.co.uk

271–280 of 340 posts

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#271
post #136

The amount of crap in the app stores that encourage this sort of behaviour is truly, truly shocking. The gaming community often lambast companies like EA etc for loot boxes ("surprise mechanics"), which is definitely a problem that needs to go away, but from this article I suspect there's a lot of examples of absolute bottom of the barrel shovelware on the app stores that's raking it in from accidental purchases from…

Can the use of the term “surprise mechanics” not in itself lead to some definition of gambling? eg.: Gamblers continuously perform some behaviour in order to activate some sort of “surprise circuit” within the mind? Surely their definition is not too far from that of gambling or the mechanics of the circuits activated by gambling/surprises, within the mind.

Gambling requires you to win something of value. Pinball machines only give you free games and are not giving something of value. However some countries like the Netherlands have a definition that includes many of these video games.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#272
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ever use a credit card over a debit card??? With debit you spend the money you own. With credit you take debt. On every single payment. You are taking debt. Only at the end of the month you pay your debt. If you spent too much, (by accident) you now have to pay overdraft interest. With debit you spend the actual money you own. If a purchase (fraudulent or not) exceeds your current balance, the payment w…

>If a purchase (fraudulent or not) exceeds your current balance, the payment won’t process >But that is a good thing. In case of fraud that's a bad thing because your cash flow is now screwed until the dispute's resolved. What do you do if you have $1000 in the bank, you get a fraudulent charge for $600, and this months rent of $800 is coming up?

In the UK the tenant needs to be 2 months behind in rent before the landlord can start the eviction process.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#273
I don't understand why people don't learn the rules of the game called "business" at least a little bit. If you have the right to cancel something within 14 days there are rules to how to do this. Don't expect cooperation from the other side of the table. Just follow the rules.

I'm quite sure the rules say something like this, but I'm not a lawyer and have not looked it up again:

1. Find out the business address of that company, preferably one in your country if there are multiple options.

2. Write a letter in Word where you say you want to revert the orders .

3. Print, sign, then photograph that letter with your phone (which adds a date to the photo).

4. Go to your town's post office and tell them you want to send this letter in a way that the receiver needs to sign for that and you want to get back that signature.

5. Wait for the signature.

6. If nothing happens besides the signature, write them an email adding all the details and the photos of the signature and the letter.

7. If still nothing happens on your bank account, and the sum is over 500€ or similar go with all the documents to a court and request they help you get the money back. Not sure if other countries but in my country for 45€ they will send a specially colored letter to the company claiming the payment and threatening a lawsuit.

8. Check the times here, but when they are up and nothing happened go with all these things to a lawyer and he will probably sue for you. In most countries losing such a lawsuit is path that might end up bringing the CEO into jail (not directly, but it certainly is on the table as possibility at this point), so the chances are super high that at this point they will send the money or declare bankruptcy. In case of bankruptcy your lawyer knows how to continue.

There's no need for reminders, warnings, etc. All that might end up you being behind your deadlines. Print a paper letter, sign it, and send it in a way that can prove reception.

A professional company with good intent will also not feel threatened by you doing the right thing according to law. So don't be afraid to be perceived as unfriendly. The only people who will claim unfriendliness here either have no idea what they are doing or are using your shame against you in the hopes that you do mistakes.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#274
post #35

Mobile free to play games now make up the majority of money made in video games today. It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? It would seem that the payers are the exploitable - those able to be swindled with casino mechanisms. As an ex- free-to-play game developer and one who believes regulation often does more harm to co…

How about the app stores classifying them? I've tried looking for games I could buy outright. Try finding a game without ads or in app purchases. It is extremely difficult to search by those criteria.

Try searching the internet instead of those storefronts, you'll get more than enough listicles.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#275
post #174

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

Anecdata: I live this, I agree with you. An MMO was the only thing in my life I've stayed up all night for and then been able to set an alarm and wake up for after 2 hours of sleep. This was a game I committed to for 14 years. I've slept through finals, been tardy my entire life, yet for this MMO I could do anything. I was "sick" instead of seeing my girlfriend, I was otherwise occupied instead of working, or school.…

Hear hear.

I’m madaxe. I’m an addict.

I wasted 18 months of university on an MMO, 15 years ago. Cost me my social life, my girlfriend, and I found myself on academic probation.

It was absolutely insidious. I only found my way out of it by becoming a GM and then banning my own account, because even though I’d made the decision I wanted to stop, I just kept finding myself downloading and installing the client, yet again. It worked, I completed my degree, rekindled friendships. I did relapse about four years later while working a shitty boring QA job, and decided to treat the root cause, which was the shitty job, and went and started a business - and then didn’t game at all for nearly a decade.

Weirdly, my addiction and my physical running away from the environment that fostered it lead to much of the success that I have enjoyed since. It made things so intolerably bad that a ground change was mandatory.

I game again now, but it’s now on the order of about 5 hours a week on average - I’ll still occasionally spend a sleepless weekend playing something, but then I’ll go a month without. I like finite games - some adventure with an enthralling plot, and when it’s over, it’s over - or grand strategy like civ, where you master the game and move on - and frankly I find a three day deity match gruelling enough that it’ll be three months or more before I get the itch again.

I’ll never touch an MMO again - they are almost perfect and infinite skinner boxes.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because most people don't get addicted to video games, just like most people don't get addicted to alcohol So, uhh, what _do_ they get addicted to?

Most people aren't addicted to anything. Most people who try alcohol and video games don't get addicted to them

Sugar is actually one of the most common addictions in Western countries at least. It's sometimes introduced at a young age (via baby formula) and then it's present in more or less everything we eat, most times in relatively high quantities. Even in food you wouldn't imagine having sugar.

So it's hard to notice you're addicted until you start to explicitly avoid it and the realities of withdrawal (to the respective degree of addiction) kicks in.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because most people don't get addicted to video games, just like most people don't get addicted to alcohol So, uhh, what _do_ they get addicted to?

Most people aren't addicted to anything. Most people who try alcohol and video games don't get addicted to them

Facebook.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#278
post #174

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

Anecdata: I live this, I agree with you. An MMO was the only thing in my life I've stayed up all night for and then been able to set an alarm and wake up for after 2 hours of sleep. This was a game I committed to for 14 years. I've slept through finals, been tardy my entire life, yet for this MMO I could do anything. I was "sick" instead of seeing my girlfriend, I was otherwise occupied instead of working, or school.…

I lost about 5 years of my life to WoW.

I was in a good place in 2005, had sold my house and got voluntary redundancy from my job. But emotionally not so great. Long story short, I spent the proceeds from the house sale and redundancy on a level 85 character from every class, on both Horde and Alliance, on both Euro and US servers. I only stopped when a relationship broke up, and I finally realised that WoW wasn't helping. I logged out that day and haven't touched it since (8 years ago now).

I went through a severe clinical depression after that, though, and it took me another 5 years to get back to "normal" (whatever that is). Looking back on it, I was depressed the whole time and was using WoW as a way of surviving the depression without having to face my demons.

I think the problem of video game addiction has nothing to do with video games. Video games are a symptom, not a cause. The problem is the usual existential crisis of modern society: what is the point of our lives? I don't think we can solve this by regulating video games. In fact, I think that video games may be a useful barometer for mental health, and a lot less destructive than the other options (alcohol, drugs, sex, etc).

But I also think that's a completely different problem from the one the article is talking about, which is luring small kids into spending serious money on online games. That one we can solve with regulation.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#279

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

I think a much closer and more appropriate analogy is gambling. They're both forms of games and are both engineered to engage the player in similar ways. Their monetisation and marketing strategies are also converging rapidly. Buying gems and coins in a mobile game is largely indistinguishable in my mind from buying tokens for a slot machine.

The problem is games are not regulated in the way that slot machines and fixed odds betting machines are. As a result they are free to implement tactics that would be illegal in a gambling machine. For example the way some mobile games like Candy Crush calibrate the game difficulty to match the playing style of the player and adjust the odds of winning to entice them into buying coins to 'take advantage' of some perceived opportunity that the game then adjusts itself to take away from you.

I'm not sure how to address this though. How can we appropriately regulate Candy Crush, without unintended consequences for Kerbal Space Program fro example? I'm not even necessarily against pay-to-play, after all it's just an extension of the model for coin operated arcade games.

It might be controversial to suggest this, but it seems like some people actively seek out addiction. Maybe they are missing something in their lives and see an addiction as filling it somehow. Maybe we all do that in some from or other, we just call it engagement.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#280
There's a bunch of people in this thread saying "but what about the parents", and a bunch of other people in this thread saying "but dark patterns", and they're both missing the point.

If you're in the industry and making money from IAPs, especially from lootbox IAPs, the one thing you need to know is that governments are coming for you.

If you're Apple or Google taking 30% of those IAPs (and also not paying much tax) then government is coming after that money.

If you're a publisher selling games for children, marketed to children, with hundreds or thousands of dollars of IAPs then governments are coming after you too.

Articles like this are a clear and simple warning: fix your shit, sort out sensible industry self-regulation, or face EU wide regulation.

We have plenty of examples to prove that the EU or individual governments are not afraid of bringing in fierce regulation.

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