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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

nbcnews.com

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#211

Post by someguydave »

m463 wrote: post #119

Silicon Valley has changed a lot in the last 20-30 years. The ability to physically design and create things has basically disappeared. I'm not only talking about chips, but mechanical, electrical engineering and all the miscellaneous disciplines associated with creating something in one place. That used to be the strength of the valley. If you want to do software, ok, but that's arguably less location dependent.

The reason that industry was lost was because China was willing to subsidize it in their territory and the US government enabled them because they thought it would bring democracy and freedom.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#212

Post by allthecybers »

noir_lord wrote: post #138
strictfp wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the nordics and I when I was younger I thought of the US as the ultimate place to be. Now, having been there quite a bit, I must say that it really doesn't impress. The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist. And although I would concievebly earn a…

I talk to quite a lot of Americans online and many of them really are not aware, as they are programmers they generally earn good (by UK standards very good) money but then you start talking to them about what good health insurance for a family of four costs and suddenly things start to look different. I think in some respects the US has coasted on it's former economic glory - I mean sure Silicon Valley is a mecca fo…

> I think in some respects the US has coasted on it's former economic glory - I mean sure Silicon Valley is a mecca for folks like us but then you look at things outside of the those types of Nexuses and its a very different picture.

This is not intended as a political statement or a commentary on current politics. But its often said that Americans vote against their own interests and I think this is particularly true in issues surrounding the social safety net, like universal healthcare, parental leave and other things that some other first-world countries have already figured out.

Unfortunately, this puts us at an ever growing disadvantage with the rest of the world as the only people who can attain these benefits in the US are FAANG, some fortune 500 and other megacorp employees. This also exacerbates inequality between the FAANGs and FAANGnots. (horrible pun, I know)

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#213

Post by allthecybers »

strictfp wrote: post #133
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

I'm from the nordics and I when I was younger I thought of the US as the ultimate place to be. Now, having been there quite a bit, I must say that it really doesn't impress. The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist. And although I would concievebly earn a…

> The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist.

Having lived in at least two of the cities listed above I can confirm.

Thinking about this point, some of the most valuable US based companies make gadgets and consumer items for us to play with, or services to entertain or glue us to our screens… Apple, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon (Alexa, etc).

While I can’t seem to live without my iPhone I wonder if our innovation is somewhat misdirected. Where is high-speed rail, broadly adopted forms of alternative energy, new feats of engineering in bridges and infrastructure, ambitious national projects that improve the lives of citizens and bring a higher standard of living not just to coastal cities?

Its worrying, but I wonder if we are here now, where will the US be in 20 years? No doubt the US will be still generating significant shareholder value but have a widening social inequality, crumbled infrastructure and disappearing coastal geography.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#214

Post by allthecybers »

president wrote: post #103

Quality of life (e.g. security, stability, happiness) for the average citizen in the US seems to be on a downward trend. I imagine that is a big factor for foreign tech workers leaving the country. It's not all about money.

Even a highly compensated US tech worker can be bankrupted by medical costs. Seen it happen.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#215

Post by allthecybers »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #163
suyash wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several other reasons for not living in China, have you ever been there? Freedom, Privacy, Pollution, Corruption, Healthcare etc.

Healthcare is actually pretty good in big Chinese cities. China is actually getting close to universal insurance coverage. At this pace, it seems like the US might end up being the last country on Earth without some sort of government-backed universal coverage scheme.

> At this pace, it seems like the US might end up being the last country on Earth without some sort of government-backed universal coverage scheme.

IMO this is a quickly growing competitive disadvantage for the US.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#216

Post by imhoguy »

mycall wrote: post #204
imhoguy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work will take it even further with remote salaries exploding. Being underdog in expensive 1st world country vs living like a king while telecommuting from mother's country - no brainer. And human rights become a minority problem. Harsh but real.

Any pro tips to go remote?

Go abroad, build street cred and network, go back, keep in touch with people.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#217

Post by baybal2 »

yomly wrote: post #198
baybal2 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Electronics. Consumer and industrial 2. Just for any engineering job in China there is a personal "middle income trap" of around net CNY25000-30000 per month. You reach it, and your career progression stalls, possibly for a decade or so. Progress past the formal "senior" level is a rare, rare luck. At 30000 net a month, you can live very very well in China.

Any idea what people at BAT earn? 30k rmb isn't bad for being in China but also isn't great at global level...

> Any idea what people at BAT earn?

Should be the same. Just because of their size there should be more space to grow for a senior, but in general they can afford to pay less then the market rate because they think that the talent will keep coming to them because of their big name.

In China, the salary distribution is very very homogenious, unlike in the West. Any kind of seniority, experience, or performance component will rarely contribute to more that 30% of your salary.

That is why China looses out to the West when it comes to retaining super senior level specialists. They either start their own business, or move to the West

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#219

Post by kovacs_x »

m463 wrote: post #119

Silicon Valley has changed a lot in the last 20-30 years. The ability to physically design and create things has basically disappeared. I'm not only talking about chips, but mechanical, electrical engineering and all the miscellaneous disciplines associated with creating something in one place. That used to be the strength of the valley. If you want to do software, ok, but that's arguably less location dependent.

World has changed a lot in last 20-30 years, as cold war and USSR did end in 1991 and lot of things changed in Europe and Asia since then.

Valley will never be what it was in terms of global influence, especially if we look 40-50 years back. It's, no doubt, still a boiling pot for next-big-thing companies, but world around the US has grown significantly, especially in the last 5-10 years and there's a big demand for a skills that was not there 10-20 years ago.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#220

Post by eternalban »

allthecybers wrote: post #213
strictfp wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the nordics and I when I was younger I thought of the US as the ultimate place to be. Now, having been there quite a bit, I must say that it really doesn't impress. The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist. And although I would concievebly earn a…

> The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist. Having lived in at least two of the cities listed above I can confirm. Thinking about this point, some of the most valuable US based companies make gadgets and consumer items for us to play with, or services to e…

The most run down "empire", ever.

Possibly we're the first instance of an 'Overlay Empire', with its magnificent gleaming Imperial City hidden somewhere in the clouds ..

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