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Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#311

Post by maxerickson »

harryh wrote: post #233
mikeash wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. If Amazon pays their workers better, that won’t fix the millions of other workers stuck with bad pay and abusive jobs. But that doesn’t mean we should ignore the individual companies. Certainly, our energies should be focused on bigger societal changes. But it’s not misplaced ore to also mention the fact that some companies could already do better, and choose not to.

I completely agree. If Amazon pays their workers better, that won’t fix the millions of other workers stuck with bad pay and abusive jobs. That's not what I meant by "more efficient." If every company employing low skilled labor suddenly raised pay above market wages it might help all those workers. But it would mean that prices for things produced by unskilled laborers were artificially high and prices produced by h…

You are arguing the unstable limit case. There's likely some smaller wage increase that wouldn't impact the prices of goods...

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#312

Post by andrepd »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #138
JudgeWapner wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . It bothers me that people are constantly demonizing Amazon for Why does it bother you when people empathize with the poor and castigate billion dollar corporations that don't even allow employees enough time to urinate without it harming the employees metrics making them slip towards the back of the rank and closer to being fired? That bothers you ...think about that.

While I voted you up for the general point, I also think that perhaps cutting off the parent quote where you did is a little unfair: > rather than demonizing the market conditions that have led to Amazon warehouses being a place people are willing to work. It's appropriate to "demonize" Amazon, but isn't that observation also correct? Amazon's taking advantage of desperate people, and no matter the job market conditi…

Yes, the problem is systemic. Amazon is "playing by the rules", it's the rules (of single-minded maximisation of profit) that are the problem.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#313

Post by mikeash »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #300
mikeash wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“If you were to tip say $50 to $100 each time you ate out this could be a reality.” Exactly how often do you think I eat out?

Doesn't matter, like Amazon it doesn't matter that everyone else pays much less than you (market rate) instead you are personally responsible for the lives of anyone you pay for a service. If the amount you are willing to pay doesn't result in a great standard of living then you are at fault.

Doesn’t matter if your claim is actually correct or not? That’s a hell of an argument.

I’m responsible for the tips waiters receive from me. Amazon is responsible for the wages their workers receive from them. Makes sense to me.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#314

Post by [deleted] »

dymk wrote: post #306
cyphar wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since Amazon easily hires and retains people at these wages, there very likely isn't anything wrong with these jobs. At least not compared to similar jobs for the same segment of the work force. I agree that there are almost certainly many other examples of inhumane treatment of low-wage workers. We should fix those too. If low-wage workers had unions then you would be able to have those kinds of cross-industry gro…

$15/hour is “inhumanly low”? Since when? Amazon has been a leader in paying unskilled workers a good salary at huge scale.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#315

Post by cyphar »

dymk wrote: post #306
cyphar wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since Amazon easily hires and retains people at these wages, there very likely isn't anything wrong with these jobs. At least not compared to similar jobs for the same segment of the work force. I agree that there are almost certainly many other examples of inhumane treatment of low-wage workers. We should fix those too. If low-wage workers had unions then you would be able to have those kinds of cross-industry gro…

$15/hour is “inhumanly low”? Since when? Amazon has been a leader in paying unskilled workers a good salary at huge scale.

They only just started paying $15/hour recently, after the whole STOP-BEZOS Act back-and-forth with Bernie Sanders[1]. You appear to be implying they paid a $15/hour minimum wage before October of last year (you can't be a leader in something if you only started doing it 9 months ago because of overwhelming public pressure by politicians) -- they didn't.

My point is that low-wage workers are usually not in a position to quit one of their multiple jobs because they might become homeless or lose their health insurance. In fact, Amazon having higher wages means that low-wage workers are more likely to continue working there despite the conditions, because they have nowhere else they could go. But instead of discussing the point I was making, you are cherry-picking one particular phrase I used -- which applies to almost all other low-wage jobs but no longer (as of Oct 2018) applies to Amazon.

But also, the working conditions are the thing that most people have issue with (now that Amazon finally pays its workers a minimum wage that is reasonable). Not being able to take bathroom breaks without risking the loss of your job is not a humane way to treat people, even if you're paid $15/hour.

[1]: https://www.businessinsider.nl/bernie-sanders-amazon-fight-m...

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#316

Post by mikeash »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #302
mikeash wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about running at a loss? I’m just stating that they can pay more by taking less of a profit, “the market” doesn’t stop them.

They only make $5000 per worker per year or so, given that the stock market has consistent returns of about 7% lately it's getting to the point that it would be better to put that money there was opposed to paying workers with it for such small returns.

$11 billion divided by 650,000 workers isn’t $5,000.

In any case, the point is that they can pay more. You can quibble over the amount. You can argue about whether or not they should. But they can, in the same way that I can buy an entire truck full of peaches if I decided that would be a good idea.

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#318

Post by [deleted] »

JudgeWapner wrote: post #95
mdorazio wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The compensation should reflect the mental and physical stress they put people through. As with all companies paying workers to do a job, the compensation should reflect the confluence of supply and demand in the market. The fact that Amazon can easily hire as many workers as it wants at $15/hr says that they are paying their employees plenty already. It bothers me that people are constantly demonizing Amazon for t…

> . It bothers me that people are constantly demonizing Amazon for Why does it bother you when people empathize with the poor and castigate billion dollar corporations that don't even allow employees enough time to urinate without it harming the employees metrics making them slip towards the back of the rank and closer to being fired? That bothers you ...think about that.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#319

Post by cyphar »

dymk wrote: post #305
BurningFrog wrote: post #299

Since Amazon easily hires and retains people at these wages, there very likely isn't anything wrong with these jobs. At least not compared to similar jobs for the same segment of the work force. What I think is really going on here is that Amazon has a PR vulnerability that can be exploited. With enough videos and testimony produced contrasting the plight of the poor oppressed workers with their boss, The World's Ric…

When you employ hundreds of thousands of people, it’s not hard to find hundreds who are incredibly unhappy. Sure, this only represents 0.1% of their workforce, but news agencies don’t care about that. People just want something to be angry about. They’ll continue to ignore that $15/hour is within “living wage” for the low CoL areas that Amazon fulfillment warehouses are located in.

They aren't asking for a wage increase, they're asking for better working conditions -- this is explicitly talked about at length in TFA. Also, Amazon only started paying a minimum wage of $15/hour in Oct 2018 (9 months ago) -- in large part thanks to Bernie Sanders[1].

[1]: https://www.businessinsider.nl/bernie-sanders-amazon-fight-m...

Re: Amazon workers launch protests on Prime Day

#320

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

mikeash wrote: post #313
fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter, like Amazon it doesn't matter that everyone else pays much less than you (market rate) instead you are personally responsible for the lives of anyone you pay for a service. If the amount you are willing to pay doesn't result in a great standard of living then you are at fault.

Doesn’t matter if your claim is actually correct or not? That’s a hell of an argument. I’m responsible for the tips waiters receive from me. Amazon is responsible for the wages their workers receive from them. Makes sense to me.

>Doesn’t matter if your claim is actually correct or not? That’s a hell of an argument.

If you eat out once in a lifetime or every day an effective wage can still be calculated. In NY or CA you are talking something like 30 - 50 dollars a meal[0], even more if you want to provide healthcare and all the rest. Its likely you aren't leaving $20 - $50 bills on the table for your morning coffee so why don't you think baristas deserve a living wage? It would be such a small percentage of your net worth.

[0]https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/06/rent-is-affordable-to...

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