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'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

bbc.co.uk

221–230 of 340 posts

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#221

The amount of crap in the app stores that encourage this sort of behaviour is truly, truly shocking. The gaming community often lambast companies like EA etc for loot boxes ("surprise mechanics"), which is definitely a problem that needs to go away, but from this article I suspect there's a lot of examples of absolute bottom of the barrel shovelware on the app stores that's raking it in from accidental purchases from…

> Maybe any transaction should have a 2FA style system It does - at least on Apple devices, IAP need to be authenticated with a physical interaction, and Touch/Face ID.

The benefits are largely obscured by in-game currencies, which exist primarily to obfuscate the true cost of inane in-app purchases; maximize the odds of having a useless residual balance (thus encouraging more spending); and reduce barriers to spending.

Games don’t have to prompt for confirmation to spend proprietary fake money. This removes an opportunity to reconsider a purchase, and dramatically increases the chance of accidental spending. And without a dollar value that players can easily reason about, it’s easy to not realize how much you’re spending. “35 crystal whatzits? Um, okay, that doesn’t sound like much.” Never mind the fact that you actually have to buy at least 50 whatzits to have 35, because the next lowest option is to buy 25.

I don’t have any data on this, but I’d be willing to bet that revenues from in-app purchases went through the roof when someone had the bright idea to switch to an in-game currency (and, eventually, multiple currencies).

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#222

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

I've set Google Play to prompt for my password on every purchase. It's a 40 character random alpha, mixed case, symbols and number password. Hard to type when sober, impossible while drunk. Helps prevent impulse/accidental purchases. I have to really want something to transcribe that in (not stored anywhere on my phone).

I have my password stored on the Xbox, but I've made abundantly clear that they are not able to purchase anything without consent. My kids are 10 & 12 and know it's really money and if they make even a single purchase without consent all gaming and internet privileges go away indefinitely. I get immediate receipts via text, so the ban hammer would go down quickly.

Edit, also the kids arent allowed to my phone, either. They have their own devices, and can't purchase anything on theirs (requires Mom's password). My wife likewise has her iPhone to prompt for password on purchases.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#223

I strongly believe that video games today are comparable to alcohol in the 60's. Y'know, how people in the 60's would say "Oh Johnny just likes his liquor" when Johnny's drinking at 9AM, drunk at 10 and hungover by 2. Right now we have people who are facing serious problems with video games, and yet we brush them off casually and callously. I can't count the number of stories on reddit about playing video games all d…

I think, like with other addictions, you need to take a holistic view of video game addiction that also includes the circumstances of the addicted people during their transition from casual use, to abuse, to addiction. Why? Because most people don't get addicted to video games, just like most people don't get addicted to alcohol. And while you might be able to chalk some of it up to addictive personalities (predispos…

The root cause of addiction is the same, whether it's a behavioural addiction like video games, exercise, gambling, or sex, or drugs. It's reward seeking behaviour trying to cause a rise in dopamine levels. The physiological effects of substance abuse is generally worse, but the cause is the same, from my experience and people I know the root cause is underlying psychological issues that cause people to engage in self destructive reward seeking behaviour as an unhealthy coping mechanism.

This is where I think that addiction education is completely inadequate. They teach you in school that a certain percentage of people who will do drugs (or gamble, or play video games) will get addicted, like it's some random chance. It's not a random chance though. It's easy to tell people to not do drugs, or not play video games, or to ban them from doing it, but fundamentally they're just going to engage in some other destructive behaviour if they aren't given the tools and support to engage in healthy coping strategies. We need to be teaching people how to identify addictive behaviour as it starts, we need to teach people how to reach out for support and to ensure that support is available, and we need to teach people mental hygiene. We tell people to brush their teeth and wash their hands because you don't want to get sick, but we never bother to teach people how to look after their mind.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ever use a debit card over a credit card?

As a european my question is exactly the opposite, why would you ever use a credit card if you can just pay directly with the money you have? The concept just seems to bizzare as someone who has grown up with their country specific bank cards - getting a credit card or even a visa/mastercard debit card is something fairly unusual. I do realize you american people have to build a credit score and there's cashback sche…

Yup - credit cards offer incentives (for example, 2% cash back) - I can't think of any good reason not to get one and have it set up so that it automatically deducts the balance from your bank account once a month - this makes it effectively a debit card where everything you purchase is 2% cheaper.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#225

Not sure how many people know this but you can use a service like privacy.com to get burner credit card numbers. For example, you can create a burner credit card number that only works one time or has a specific spend limit (like $20 per transaction or $20 total in transactions per month). Credit cards/debit cards are inherently insecure because the credit card number can be reused by anyone who has the code. It is a…

Or (in this case) at least set up purchase alerting on the card.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#226
Can't games by default send an sms/email to their parents asking for confirmation?

This could just be something you enable/disable in game with a PIN. I don't know, anything would be nice. With no protection, you get the idea this is exactly what publishers want to happen.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#227
There is, without doubt, a lot of garbage out there in these games for purchase. There are also a lot of issues with the way they get people to spend money.

That said, if your kid steals your credit card and spends a bunch of money on it, the issue isn't the game, it's that your kid is stealing from you. If he/she stole your credit card and bought clothes at the mall, you wouldn't blame the clothing store...

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still though, they gave the kid their credit card. If you don't want your kid to spend £3000 then don't give it to them? Not defending any particular app's behaviour. Without any first hand knowledge, I certainly believe that there are scummy games out there using dubious methods to get people to rack up IAP.

Some of this is "bad parenting", but games that say they're OK for 3 year olds (like the mini-golf game described in the article) shouldn't make it easy for a 3 year old to spend money. I have less sympathy for the high-school and college kids who did this.

> shouldn't make it easy for a 3 year old to spend money.

Am I the only one that is impressed by a 3 year old knowing how to use a credit card online. I have trouble, at times, getting all 16 digits correct--depending on the past week's workload.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#229
I think an obvious solution here is simply to strengthen consumer protection laws and shift the burden of preventing this from the consumer to the vendor.

The common thread in all these stories was "a kid spends a bunch of money, parent asks for a refund, is told no". But consider if the law says that digital goods such as this must be refunded on demand unless you can prove the purchaser wasn't a child. (If you want to really drive the point home, add a penalty clause for abuse, so you have to refund 150% of the total if there's evidence of any attempt to target minors, hide the charges, dark patterns, etc.)

If Apple becomes statutorily required to refund the money, they'll get very good very quickly at kicking bad actors off their platform.

This shouldn't be a system where parents try and protect themselves and their children and scummy vendors try and exploit them; it should be a shystem where Apple (and the other platforms and market operators) try to protect themselves and scummy vendors try and exploit them. Leave liability with the people most able to protect themselves, not the least able.

I don't think bans or treating games like drugs is needed; if you remove the financial incentive of being abusive, you'll stop the abuse.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#230
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but it seems like many video game designs are engineering towards exploiting addictive behavior. This is predatory business behavior.

All business behaviour is (potentially) predatory. It's the job of regulators to set the rules, and for businesses to play within those rules as optimally as they can. It's definitely not the job of companies to _not_ give their customers what they want. If something permissible could increase their user engagement but they opt not to do it for ethical reasons, they just lose share to the less ethical companies.

It's my right as a member of a democracy to call out when a company is doing something unethical with the hope of swaying the opinion of my peers against such business practices.

It's my privilege to do so on this platform.

This type of behavior is unethical which is an entirely different thing than illegal. I hope we can adjust regulations on the market to make such behavior illegal. I have this hope because I don't want to live in a society where an increasingly portion of the population is addicted.

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