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'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#211

Post by glenvdb »

As someone who grew up on games during the GameBoy and N64 era, I have fond memories of gaming and want my son to grow up with gaming in his life.

But in my "old man yells at cloud" state of mind, I don't want him to grow up on gaming of today.

He's not yet old enough to play video games, but when he is I'm inspired to implement something similar to what's outlined here: https://medium.com/message/playing-with-my-son-e5226ff0a7c3

TL:DR Start his gaming journey at the beginning of the gaming industry (i.e. Pong, Pac-Man) in the hope that exposure to what gaming used to be like will "inoculate" him against what gaming is like today.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#212

Post by joenot443 »

ohyes wrote: post #127
nabergh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would definitely be hooked on that particular game and still throwing money out for -- not much but a faster reward-cycle. Do you think that's an inherently bad thing? Maybe it was for you at the time but I feel like the ability to reliably turn money into entertainment (in this case "a faster reward-cycle") is a great thing to have available to people who already have their basic needs met.

In that case, what’s wrong with heroine? You’re just sticking entertainment into your arm. (This is intentionally hyperbolic). This issue isn’t really the money -> gratification conversion, it’s the addictive nature of the process. If I’ve done everything I can to addict you to my product (to remove your ability to decide for yourself)... I’m in a morally bad area. I’m of the opinion that some of these addictive resp…

I think there are plenty of companies who there who do everything in their power to addict people to their products. Whether it's moral is a completely different discussion, but I definitely don't think this pattern is unique to game developers.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#213

Post by Latty »

glenvdb wrote: post #211

As someone who grew up on games during the GameBoy and N64 era, I have fond memories of gaming and want my son to grow up with gaming in his life. But in my "old man yells at cloud" state of mind, I don't want him to grow up on gaming of today. He's not yet old enough to play video games, but when he is I'm inspired to implement something similar to what's outlined here: https://medium.com/message/playing-with-my-son…

What you are talking about is a subset of games today - there are still tons of great games out there with ethical monetization (more than there ever have been, in fact).

Yeah, you have to skip some of the big names and a lot of the mobile space, but that still leaves a lot of great stuff out there. While letting them experience a ton of classics certainly isn't a bad idea, it also isn't the only way to avoid predatory monetization.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#214

Post by BlueGh0st »

patorjk wrote: post #86
throwaway13337 wrote: post #4

Mobile free to play games now make up the majority of money made in video games today. It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? It would seem that the payers are the exploitable - those able to be swindled with casino mechanisms. As an ex- free-to-play game developer and one who believes regulation often does more harm to co…

> It's strange then that most of these games aren't that interesting. Who are the players of these that make up the new class of gamers? It's just one data point, but my mother-in-law, who's in her late 60's, plays a lot of free games. She did an audit of her spending last year and discovered she'd spent over $500 in Candy Crush (I think that was the game). She complained to them and they gave her a partial refund, t…

What exactly does one complain about? If I complain to a movie theatre for all the money I've spent on tickets, they're just going to say "Um, okay..?"

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#215

Post by BlueGh0st »

Balgair wrote: post #141
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App store games don't get rated by the ESRB

A glaring oversight in and of itself. If you're going to have interoperability between mobile and console games, the ratings agencies should have jurisdiction across the spectrum.

The ESRB is already a cancer, why would we want it to spread?

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#216

Post by BlueGh0st »

mac_was wrote: post #133
vorpalhex wrote: post #6

But how do you tell the difference between an adult and a kid with their parents password and bank card? If you trust your kid with your bank account and get burned.. isn't that kind of on you?

Did you read the article at all? A game says it is for 3 years old and above and it uses trickery to manipulate a 5 year old into thinking that real money is just game coins. How are you supposed to control that?

By actually parenting your kid and what they do instead of just plopping them down in front of the app store?

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#217

Post by chepaslaaa »

maze-le wrote: post #139
ohyes wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, what’s wrong with heroine? You’re just sticking entertainment into your arm. (This is intentionally hyperbolic). This issue isn’t really the money -> gratification conversion, it’s the addictive nature of the process. If I’ve done everything I can to addict you to my product (to remove your ability to decide for yourself)... I’m in a morally bad area. I’m of the opinion that some of these addictive resp…

That is a very bad example. In Switzerland, if you are a severe addict, you can get heroine in pharmacies. The most important restriction is that if you buy the stuff, you are also bound to go to a therapeutic clinic and have staff assisting you whenever you want to withdraw. There are also clean injection rooms and other social mechanisms that help you get off the stuff. The result -- fewer heroine addicts, fewer dr…

The main problem with opiates in north america is that they're prescribed with no mechanism in place for withdrawing.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#218

Post by foldingmoney »

fkdo wrote: post #183
d1zzy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything can be an addiction, meaning if it stops you from going to school/work, building and maintaining relationships, having food and shelter then it qualifies IMO. So while I support trying to help people in this situation I would be careful to not make it harder for everyone else that is responsibly enjoying those things.

Yes but it seems like many video game designs are engineering towards exploiting addictive behavior. This is predatory business behavior.

All business behaviour is (potentially) predatory. It's the job of regulators to set the rules, and for businesses to play within those rules as optimally as they can. It's definitely not the job of companies to _not_ give their customers what they want.

If something permissible could increase their user engagement but they opt not to do it for ethical reasons, they just lose share to the less ethical companies.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#219

Post by anonymous5133 »

Not sure how many people know this but you can use a service like privacy.com to get burner credit card numbers. For example, you can create a burner credit card number that only works one time or has a specific spend limit (like $20 per transaction or $20 total in transactions per month). Credit cards/debit cards are inherently insecure because the credit card number can be reused by anyone who has the code.

It is a free service. If the parents in the article used a service like that then all of their spending problems would be solved because junior couldn't charge the card any further. All additional transactions would simply be declined.

The article talks about government regulation, but the government honestly has better things to worry about than what junior is spending on apps. People simply need to use the existing services, like privacy.com, to control their spending.

Re: 'My son spent £3,160 in one game'

#220

Post by opportune »

syndacks wrote: post #208
opportune wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, like with other addictions, you need to take a holistic view of video game addiction that also includes the circumstances of the addicted people during their transition from casual use, to abuse, to addiction. Why? Because most people don't get addicted to video games, just like most people don't get addicted to alcohol. And while you might be able to chalk some of it up to addictive personalities (predispos…

>Because most people don't get addicted to video games, just like most people don't get addicted to alcohol So, uhh, what _do_ they get addicted to?

Most people aren't addicted to anything. Most people who try alcohol and video games don't get addicted to them
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