i think it all goes back "How much is enough", IMHO, the persons who figured answers for that are the ones to envy ;)
Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
251–260 of 292 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#252I remember when I was a kid riding in my car with my mom. I would pretend we were racing other cars. It was a completely meaningless endeavor, of course.
It was great, because any car behind us was losing, and every car that passed us, in my mind, decided they no longer wanted to race. Therefore mom and I were always winning.
I am a petty person, and this approach helps to this day. When someone surpasses me, I think about what's important to me, and then say "oh, that person is playing a different game with different goals."
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a reason "fail fast" is a mantra: it's through looking at our errors we have chances to do better. I'd agree, though that's not what this discussion was originally about. It sure is possible to rebrand every failure we make as success in some thing else. "I failed to win the tennis match, but I succeeded in hitting the ball into the net!". I agree, though nobody (at least not in this discussion) is endorsing…
To be clearer "Cognitive Dissonance" is the feeling, it's not an activity that someone engages in. So the OP has the feeling of cognitive dissonance between their "21 year old self" and where they are today. My statement was meant to say that a common way people cope with this, in my experience, is to convince themselves to satisfice [1] instead of continuing to pursue their original goal. It could be claimed that fo…
To be clearer "Cognitive Dissonance" is the feeling,
it's not an activity that someone engages in.
However falling into a stable local minima because you didn't
become the CEO of a F500 company or become a championship tennis
player etc...and convincing yourself that being a regional VP
or a high school tennis coach is just as good because [reasons]
seems to be how people cope with this dissonance.
Finding happiness in a "stable local minima" does not require a delusional belief that this situation is equivalent to some other, grander achievement. I'm sure it happens, but frankly I've never known anybody to really hold that particular delusion.
I doubt it was anybody's grand ambition to be a high school tennis coach, but it's actually a pretty cool job if you like that kind of thing, and it's awfully dark to think that all ~25,000 high school tennis coaches in America engage in conscious acts of delusional thinking in order to fool themselves into making it through their day. I know a few, and they just... enjoy tennis, teaching, and children? Plus tennis isn't the only thing in their lives?
I also know folks who've briefly played pro sports, and while they didn't achieve all they hoped, they're proud of what they did accomplish. No self-deception required.
Things I have seen a lot of, though not from athletes or coaches:
- Folks who get somewhat close to some goal and decide it's not for them once they have a more realistic picture of the day-to-day reality of that goal. Example: a rising executive who realizes that CEO life for company XYZ requires being on the road 300 days a year and not being around for her kids while they grow up.
- Folks who are delusional about the reasons why they didn't achieve some goal
Ultimately, people choose goals like "become a CEO of a F500 company" or "become a championship tennis player" because they imagine those things will make them happy. That is the true goal. And many times, people simply find different ways to be happy. No cognitive dissonance required.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can find back the link, I'd like to read this
Looking for it. BTW... I am never going back to Huffington Post. Wow... the "privacy controls" are sooooo broken.... Sorry. Can't find it. It was really interesting, though. I found a similar article here: $500K and scraping by - https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-yea... It's interesting how they justify $23K a year for food for a family of 4. But the thing is, I know lots of people who spend th…
Food is one of those areas where I definitely spend more, but It's also a conscious decision. I grew up extremely poor, so being able to eat well is something I 100% find worthwhile.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My question to people with this attitude is, what is the point of your life? > I've lost a lot of friends and recognize that life is way too short to not be putting as much time as possible toward something you find totally compelling. ... > This pervasive idea that "it's just a fucking job" is ultimately a milquetoast cop-out. Spend your hours doing something that has impact to you. Why can't "raising a family" be…
I mean it's so vague that it doesn't make sense. What is a measurable outcome from "raise a family?" Does that just mean producing offspring or are you requiring a certain outcome for the children and the unit as a whole, in order to feel content? These are independent autonomous humans who have their own goals - so what happens when they deviate from the things you wanted them to do? I have three kids and I can tell…
“And if any appear never to assume the chair, but always to stand and serve, it is because we do not see the company in a sufficiently long period for the whole rotation of parts to come about. As to what we call the masses, and common men;—there are no common men. All men are at last of a size; and true art is only possible, on the conviction that every talent has its apotheosis somewhere. Fair play, and an open field, and freshest laurels to all who have won them! But heaven reserves an equal scope for every creature. Each is uneasy until he has produced his private ray unto the concave sphere, and beheld his talent also in its last nobility and exaltation.”
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, Representative Men (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/6312/6312-h/6312-h.htm)
It seems to me that no person is in a position to judge whether another has found the thing that they should be shaping their life around. As much as we like to assume they are, humans aren’t rational creatures and activities that appear completely pointless from the outside can be incredibly meaningful to the one doing them.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not a fan, and indeed, I would have preferred never to have heard of the canadian psychotherapist with lots of snake oil to sell. That being said, giving yourself the job of "going after" someone, hoarding any and all embarrassing public speeches and having people judge him using just that concentrated negativity you've managed to scrape off the walls, isn't that a little bit like the kind of envy this very thre…
Doesn't envy require me wanting to be like him?
Running successful business with multiple campaign fronts and ambitious product ideas? That's worthy my envy. Maybe you don't care.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can find back the link, I'd like to read this
Looking for it. BTW... I am never going back to Huffington Post. Wow... the "privacy controls" are sooooo broken.... Sorry. Can't find it. It was really interesting, though. I found a similar article here: $500K and scraping by - https://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-yea... It's interesting how they justify $23K a year for food for a family of 4. But the thing is, I know lots of people who spend th…
You have the other extreme, Mr Money Moustache who claims to feed a family of 4 on about 300 dollars a month:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/29/killing-your-1000...
of course, that´s a lot of rice, noodles and beans (not that there´s anything bad with those, but I´d get bored).
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#258At the end of the day, it's just a fucking job. If you need the money I understand the envy, and I've been there. But ultimately most of us are working really hard to make other people rich. Being really good at that game (and it's a pretty bitter game) isn't something to be envious of. I have never seen a high paying job in tech that wasn't ALSO higher stress and generally more hours. I'm sure exceptions exist, but…
I've worked at FAANGs and places like FAANGs... I don't really understand why so many people seem to think that working for FAANG must necessarily mean no life outside of work, or bad work-life balance. Maybe that is true at Amazon, or Apple, or something but I personally have not had a hard time working 40hr/weeks (90% of the time) while getting good reviews
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That's not cognitive dissonance. That's learning and growing. This is committing the straw-man fallacy. The poster that this is responding to did not elaborate on what cognitive-dissonance they are referring to. In this case "learning and growing" is an optimistic, ego-stroking spin on "admitting defeat". I believe that AndrewKemendo has chosen his words carefully because being able to lose and fail graciously is m…
My post's not straw man. I responded to precisely what the parent poster said. They were very specific about the cognitive dissonance they perceived. If we're pointing out actual logical fallacies... to lose and fail graciously is more virtuous than trying to preserve the ego and pretend that it was a win In a universe where those are the only two possibilities? Sure. You and OP are presenting a false dichotomy. Pare…
More to the point, it's absolutely normal for people to shift their perspective, it's called growing as a person, part of said growth is learning more about yourself, and getting better at life in general.
I know it sounds dismissive, but I get the strong impression these other posters are young.
Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?
#260One way might be to split envy in to: Covetousness Resentment Sadness (Maybe ambition?) Covetousness is really, really, bad. It will eat your soul. It is the desire to take what someone else has for yourself. “I want his car.” “I want his girlfriend.” Resentment can be useful for a short term, but will eat you and cause bitterness if it festers. “I am not paid what I’m worth, I can get better elsewhere.” Is a useful…
Very good point! Envy has layers! Hard to keep that in mind in the throes of it — but certainly a smart approach.