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Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

theguardian.com

51–60 of 252 posts

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#51
post #19

Drug use is seen as a moral failing that must be punished, not as an illness that should be treated.

Illegal drug use. People use alcohol, caffeine, nicotine all the time but most people don't even view those as "drugs".

The boundary between drugs and non-drugs is murky. Even refined salt, sugar, and flour could be classified as "drugs" -- your brain gets affected by them, potentially permanently, and they are hardly natural -- and even less people consider them as drugs.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#52
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate that this sounds so tin foil hat because it is absolutely true. There is no grand conspiracy to keep drugs illegal. There is a vast, semi well intentioned system built over a century that people adapted to over time to profit off of and now that they are profiting they are not going to give it up easily. Because of the governmental nature of the people who profit they are also very well positioned to…

>There is no grand conspiracy to keep drugs illegal Many people working together to keep something illegal in order to profit is not a "conspiracy", it's lobbying. >semi well intentioned system How is valuing money and power over millions of lives "semi well intenioned"?

Very few of the millions of people are conspiring together in a single group. They conspire in small groups to achieve their individual goals which may directly contradict the goals of others within the system on a case by case basis.

It's not like some secret cabal where they sit around in black robes and vote on how to maximize false arrests for profit.

Do you think out of every one of the millions of people in that system that literally every person has absolutely no intention other than profit? Yes, some people within the legal and even prison system have good intentions. To think otherwise a pretty cartoonish world view.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#53
post #2

> Why hasn’t the world copied it? Because there's too much money* to be made in keeping the status quo. * I use the terms "money" and "power" to mean the same here.

I disagree, the problem is that status quo problems are "acceptable". If a politician legalizes drugs they become personally responsible for every death from those legal drugs.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#54

“The world” is not just US and UK. Here in Switzerland, you can register as e.g. a heroin user, and be provided with cheap Swiss pharmaceutical quality heroin, for the nominal price, in specialized centers for drug users (you obviously can’t take it away, consumption is only allowed on premises — where medical and psychological help is available, and counseling programs for quitting drugs are advertised). The program…

Up to 1% of THC which is useless, according to the total absense of peer reviewed clinical trials on CBD and also no fun. Europe would be perfect if literally anywhere got this sorted out Sure, the general lack of life ruining prison sentences is ok and a stark contrast from the US, Middle East and South East Asia. And further decriminalization is ok. But where are the gummies! The edibles! Recreational highs from a…

There's FDA approved CBD drugs like Epidiolex to treat seizures. There's also evidence it alleviates anxiety (it certainly has helped me manage mine at times). Yeah it's not fun like THC but that doesn't make it useless.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#55
Deciminalisation first. Stop treating everybody like a criminal. It is so mf oppressive, to everybody.

"In many ways, the law was merely a reflection of transformations that were already happening in clinics, in pharmacies and around kitchen tables across the country. The official policy of decriminalisation made it far easier for a broad range of services (health, psychiatry, employment, housing etc) that had been struggling to pool their resources and expertise, to work together more effectively to serve their communities."

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#56
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be a big part of the reason in the US, but Germany for example isn't big on decriminalization either, and we don't have anything similar to the US prison complex. I think a large part over here is that people think it's wrong and they don't believe in the individual's right to make a choice they consider wrong. Worldwide it's probably a mix of the two: powerful interests profiteering from the status quo and…

This is what the article touched on. The culture has to shift to viewing drug addicts not as "druggies" but as someone with a problem who needs help. They changed the language they used to call them. Once this shift happened it's led the path to actually helping them instead of vilifying them.

That's certainly part of it, yeah. But even that is a view that removes drug-use as a valid choice. I certainly agree that those suffering from addiction need help, and we should provide it generously, but not everyone that uses drugs needs help. Similar to alcohol, which a lot (most?) people are able to enjoy responsibly. It seems that there's still the idea that you'd try mdma (or lots of other drugs) and will immediately find yourself in a downward spiral, completely out of control.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#57
post #2

> Why hasn’t the world copied it? Because there's too much money* to be made in keeping the status quo. * I use the terms "money" and "power" to mean the same here.

I disagree, the problem is that status quo problems are "acceptable". If a politician legalizes drugs they become personally responsible for every death from those legal drugs.

Taken another way, would this mean if I pay taxes for a war I think is unjust I'm personally responsible for every death?

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#58
post #49

From what I hear (as someone now living in rural Portugal), a turning point came when most of the electorate knew someone suffering from a drug addiction. Be it a family member, partner, or friend - there came a point when the majority of people could not only see the problems caused by the epidemic, but could also empathise with those with addictions. As a result of this understanding/empathy, it was possible to pas…

The majority of people wanting a certain law doesn't work in the US anyway as Congress is dependent on corporations much more than it is on the people: https://youtu.be/5tu32CCA_Ig Until corporate bribes are removed from electoral campaigns this won't change.

Corporations actually have a reason to be pro legalization. They’re just not always the same corporations against them. There’s lots of industry to be made around medicinal and recreational uses of drugs. It might even make jobs in rural America in the form of additional cash crops.

Further, imagine the societal impact of removing the money for cartels. I think Mexico and central and South America would become dramatically less violent over night. Farmers wouldn’t need to work with cartels to sell now legalized crops. The US would see fewer refugees.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#59
post #2

> Why hasn’t the world copied it? Because there's too much money* to be made in keeping the status quo. * I use the terms "money" and "power" to mean the same here.

I absolutely disagree with it. OK it maybe that oil companies are slowing down progress of renewables/preventing acceptance of climate change, because thing has enough money for that. But that opioid crap is simply too cheap to matter on a national level. It's just a bunch of doctors getting some new BMWs writing made up prescriptions and some corporate execs getting a few million extra bonuses for boosting opioid sales. To matter that much to impact politics in the plain view of millions people suffering, it must be a trillion dollar pie. Like oil, or military-industrial complex, or like Microsoft at the very least. It absolutely isn't.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to 1% of THC which is useless, according to the total absense of peer reviewed clinical trials on CBD and also no fun. Europe would be perfect if literally anywhere got this sorted out Sure, the general lack of life ruining prison sentences is ok and a stark contrast from the US, Middle East and South East Asia. And further decriminalization is ok. But where are the gummies! The edibles! Recreational highs from a…

There's FDA approved CBD drugs like Epidiolex to treat seizures. There's also evidence it alleviates anxiety (it certainly has helped me manage mine at times). Yeah it's not fun like THC but that doesn't make it useless.

Thanks, it was hyperbole rooted in missing the latest information (Epidiolex being approved only in June 2018)

My main point is about whats available in Europe

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