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Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#21

Post by adamcharnock »

From what I hear (as someone now living in rural Portugal), a turning point came when most of the electorate knew someone suffering from a drug addiction. Be it a family member, partner, or friend - there came a point when the majority of people could not only see the problems caused by the epidemic, but could also empathise with those with addictions.

As a result of this understanding/empathy, it was possible to pass this legislation.

I see parallels with the legalisation of same-sex marriage. I saw somewhere that there is a correlation between support of same-sex marriage and actually knowing that a family member or friend is LQBTQ.

It seems to me that once people can empathise on a personal level, new approaches become acceptable (/ enter the Overton Window).

How this relates to the opioid crisis in the USA I do not know. I’ll leave someone else with more familiarity with the situation to pontificate on that.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#22

Post by jaredklewis »

icebraining wrote: post #14
anm89 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate that this sounds so tin foil hat because it is absolutely true. There is no grand conspiracy to keep drugs illegal. There is a vast, semi well intentioned system built over a century that people adapted to over time to profit off of and now that they are profiting they are not going to give it up easily. Because of the governmental nature of the people who profit they are also very well positioned to…

Drugs in Portugal are still illegal, so that doesn't answer the question.

But now we’re just playing semantics.

For most intents and purposes, the difference between legal and fully decriminalized is not significant.

The parent’s point is that there are many parties with an interest in drugs being criminalized, which explains why the world has not copied Portugal’s decriminalization model.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#23

Post by atemerev »

“The world” is not just US and UK. Here in Switzerland, you can register as e.g. a heroin user, and be provided with cheap Swiss pharmaceutical quality heroin, for the nominal price, in specialized centers for drug users (you obviously can’t take it away, consumption is only allowed on premises — where medical and psychological help is available, and counseling programs for quitting drugs are advertised).

The program is immense success, there are no drug dealers on our streets anymore (can’t compete with cheap drugs from the government), drug-related crime has plummeted, and drug users numbers are falling down too (due to these counseling programs).

And yes, marijuana is now fully legalized (up to some percentages of THC) and you can buy it with grocery stores just like cigarettes. Nobody seems to be particularly interested, there were no significant changes in consumption culture, etc.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#24

Post by MisterTea »

minikites wrote: post #6

Drug use is seen as a moral failing that must be punished, not as an illness that should be treated.

Drug use is self medication in order to seek relief from an illness. That illness is usually mental which some view as a personal failing and not a legitimate medical condition. That or they deem it unimportant enough to care about.

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#25

Post by collyw »

Couto wrote: post #16
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you're saying is true, I think that's why the world is afraid to adopt Portugal's policy. If getting halfway there is worse than doing nothing at all, it's a very dangerous thing to try.

Just my opinion: In my experience, when people say drugs they think of cannabis, but cannabis was never the major problem in Portugal. Our problem was heroin. I think no country will legalize heroin, at least not in the short/medium term. This is clearly working, one of the major entrypoints of heavy drugs in Europe (Casal Ventoso in Lisbon) is almost clean of problems, there are still heavy drug users of course, but…

Heroin does seem to be a problematic drug.

I read that only 10% of users get addicted. But are there places where heroin is used where it doesn't become a problem?

(I am from the country where the film Trainspotting is set).

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#26

Post by 50656E6973 »

anm89 wrote: post #3
1024core wrote: post #2

> Why hasn’t the world copied it? Because there's too much money* to be made in keeping the status quo. * I use the terms "money" and "power" to mean the same here.

It's unfortunate that this sounds so tin foil hat because it is absolutely true. There is no grand conspiracy to keep drugs illegal. There is a vast, semi well intentioned system built over a century that people adapted to over time to profit off of and now that they are profiting they are not going to give it up easily. Because of the governmental nature of the people who profit they are also very well positioned to…

>There is no grand conspiracy to keep drugs illegal

Many people working together to keep something illegal in order to profit is not a "conspiracy", it's lobbying.

>semi well intentioned system

How is valuing money and power over millions of lives "semi well intenioned"?

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#27

Post by grenoire »

atemerev wrote: post #23

“The world” is not just US and UK. Here in Switzerland, you can register as e.g. a heroin user, and be provided with cheap Swiss pharmaceutical quality heroin, for the nominal price, in specialized centers for drug users (you obviously can’t take it away, consumption is only allowed on premises — where medical and psychological help is available, and counseling programs for quitting drugs are advertised). The program…

Couldn't see much about marijuana legalisation in Switzerland, most articles refer to recent trials and such. Any sources?

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#28

Post by pizza »

collyw wrote: post #25
Couto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my opinion: In my experience, when people say drugs they think of cannabis, but cannabis was never the major problem in Portugal. Our problem was heroin. I think no country will legalize heroin, at least not in the short/medium term. This is clearly working, one of the major entrypoints of heavy drugs in Europe (Casal Ventoso in Lisbon) is almost clean of problems, there are still heavy drug users of course, but…

Heroin does seem to be a problematic drug. I read that only 10% of users get addicted. But are there places where heroin is used where it doesn't become a problem? (I am from the country where the film Trainspotting is set).

> In 1971, as the Vietnam War was heading into its sixteenth year, congressmen Robert Steele from Connecticut and Morgan Murphy from Illinois made a discovery that stunned the American public. While visiting the troops, they had learned that over 15 percent of U.S. soldiers stationed there were heroin addicts. Follow up research revealed that 35 percent of service members in Vietnam had tried heroin and as many as 20 percent were addicted—the problem was even worse than they had initially thought. [...]

> Lee Robins was one of the researchers in charge. In a finding that completely upended the accepted beliefs about addiction, Robins found that when soldiers who had been heroin users returned home, only 5 percent of them became re-addicted within a year, and just 12 percent relapsed within three years. In other words, approximately nine out of ten soldiers who used heroin in Vietnam eliminated their addiction nearly overnight.

From https://jamesclear.com/heroin-habits

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#29

Post by fwip »

MisterTea wrote: post #24
minikites wrote: post #6

Drug use is seen as a moral failing that must be punished, not as an illness that should be treated.

Drug use is self medication in order to seek relief from an illness. That illness is usually mental which some view as a personal failing and not a legitimate medical condition. That or they deem it unimportant enough to care about.

Mostly I agree, but it's not always an illness, sometimes it's just a really hard living situation. (E.g. you're dependent on an abusive partner).

Re: Portugal’s radical drugs policy is working (2017)

#30

Post by rolltiide »

jaredklewis wrote: post #22
icebraining wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs in Portugal are still illegal, so that doesn't answer the question.

But now we’re just playing semantics. For most intents and purposes, the difference between legal and fully decriminalized is not significant. The parent’s point is that there are many parties with an interest in drugs being criminalized, which explains why the world has not copied Portugal’s decriminalization model.

Its very significant to me

“Decriminalized” is the same level as when literal snake oil salesmen were going around fairs in the 1880s selling unknown substances that killed you

“Legal” is when the quality is regulated and analyzed for a specific purpose and consumers know what they are buying and sellers face consequences for violating that

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