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Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

pewresearch.org

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Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#201

Post by vonseel »

hestipod wrote: post #143
rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love cities, structurally. But I find the people soul-killing. I just have very little in common with young, childless people anymore. Even when we're experiencing the same things, we're not really experiencing the same things. If I go to MOMA, it's because I want to show my daughter Starry Night. I'm scoping out tickets to take her to Hamilton, because I feel guilty for going without her. My kids are super well-be…

>The default is people like me. I think not finding things in common with young people isn't abnormal. My childhood was miserable partly BECAUSE of the sameness of it all. I find the suburban vanilla Stepford ways soul-killing. I had no exposure to culture. The internet didn't exist yet. I was ignorant and brainwashed in many ways. I felt out of place and like I was a freak because I didn't believe what I was told wa…

> The people I know that grew up in multicultural cities had so much richer experiences and opportunities to grow and explore their beliefs and ideas without their parents ideologies infecting them as much.

I’m from rural East Texas and would agree with that statement 100%.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#203

Post by vonseel »

andreilys wrote: post #33
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

To live alone one must be either a beast or a god, says Aristotle. Leaving out the third case: one must be both - a philosopher. - Nietzsche

I have been living alone for most of the past 5 years. I probably avoid loneliness by spending a ton of time on creative endeavors and artwork, and I am at peace with the solitude and do not need the comfort or attention of others. I have gone months only leaving the house to buy groceries and not visiting family or friends in person (working from home).

I do not think an average person would be able to live like this. It takes a certain type of driven, focused personality who can dive into their work or hobbies and be happy with their head below water for a while without seeing anyone. I suspect Aristotle and Nietzsche both had these qualities.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#204

Post by devdas »

rayiner wrote: post #155
hestipod wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the sustainable tight knit community is awash with horrible "values" like racism, homophobia, xenophobia, tribal bigotry and arrogance etc then I don't want to be a part of it. It's perpetuating the wrong things in my view and is like any bureaucracy just existing to serve itself. Kids should be taught the basics of human decency like honesty/empathy/kindness/sharing/helping etc, and then allowed to arrive at any…

Few tight-knit communities would consider those to be "values" ( i.e. beliefs that are core to identity). Your view is also a bit of "throwing the baby out with the bath water." Humanity has lots of vices, and those vices are often amplified in tight-knit communities. But those shortcomings can be improved without undermining the social order or adopting pernicious individualism. Again, I can't help but notice the ir…

They absolutely are values. Just not good ones.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#205

Post by Retric »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #179
jostylr wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationsh…

I can think of some reasons that a UBI would not be a panacea here. Firstly, in many cases the younger generation has left their hometown for the big city, but the parents are left behind. Even if they got an UBI, few people are going to want to move back to the “middle of nowhere” to take care of their parents. Secondly, it is now often observed that parents and children, in spite of living under the same roof, are…

UBI would likely go much further living in the country than a major city. Cost of living adjustments are possible, but seem like a terrible idea.

I don’t think you need to be constantly talking with an elderly parent for regular visits to be beneficial. A short chat, taking care of a few minor issues, and watching a movie together can make a real quality of life difference. It also demonstrates you still care.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#206

Post by cylinder »

ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

They're even alone as babies. Americans have this weird obsession with putting babies to sleep in separate rooms as soon as possible, including newborns, as if this develops some rugged independence. All the research (and common sense) shows they need to sleep as close to the mother as safely possible. Yet this mentality persists. And then the move to kick them out of the house at 18, why?

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#207

Post by BiosElement »

coryrc wrote: post #195
Miner49er wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Cooking your family a meal, or helping your neighbor repair their house doesn't increase the GDP. However, ordering food with Uber and hiring someone to work on your house does. Being involved in your community, helping your neighbors and family, etc, isn't a "productive" activity. Another good example is programming side projects. How many people are looking to make money on their side project? Rather then…

They don't have to, they're just greedy and "need" to have a new BMW and Lexus every few years, live in fashionable neighborhoods in expensive metros, and have "important" jobs. You don't need that shit in Cleveland.

Not everyone is how they appear and your disregard and assumption of greed is just sad. For example, I'm going to college, working 'and' working on a side project. I face the near future prospect of having to support myself and two parents, which hardly requires greed on my part. This situation is far from uncommon.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#208

Post by cylinder »

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #193
rev12 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very well put. Often when I hear about the older generation of my family, who immigrated and lived in Brooklyn for years before moving to the "burbs", I think they had good intentions but didn't do any favors for the subsequent generations. My parents grew up and stones throw away from grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins - a lot even lived in multi family, multi generational homes. When my mom had kids she had a sup…

My parents lived around all of their siblings. They're close, they make a point of seeing each other regularly. My generation? We all live in different states. I worry once my parents are gone, that the fabric of my family will no longer exist, because nobody puts the work into keeping us all together. When we do see eachother, it's because we have a meeting point (parent's home) and a holiday (e.g., Christmas) or so…

The hustler culture indicts us to a life of packing up and moving across the country just for a marginally better job offer or degree or cheaper mansions. You see this even on comment threads here discussing where to live in the US. People "shop" for the best city right now to move to because it has cheaper housing or taxes or whatever. Scan the entire thread and you don't see being close to family or community roots ever mentioned.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#209

Post by cylinder »

rayiner wrote: post #102
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

The public transit angle seems like a red herring to me. My wife and I lived in cities for several years after law school. (New York, Baltimore, Philly, DC.) We didn’t feel alone in school, but felt quite alone after we graduated and had a kid. By contrast, now we live in the ‘burbs near my parents, and we feel far less alone than we have for years. We’ve got neighbors with kids we see regularly. We see other parents…

Yeah I lived in Manhattan, never geographically closer to so many friends and rarely saw them. Everyone's too tired or too scheduled. In the suburbs we were often bored and open to just hanging out and not stressing about optimising our time. I always say the burbs are where new culture is created and the big cities are where it is commercially consumed.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#210

Post by FiddlerClamp »

mocha_nate wrote: post #106
BurningFrog wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But moving away is a choice to abandon your family.

“abandon” is an interesting word choice. Moving isn’t always about moving away from something, sometimes it’s about moving towards a happy prospect. Your family could respect the action.

Sometimes moving away is abandoning your family...or burdening one family member with having to care for elderly parents when nobody else is available.
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