Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 132 posts

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#11

Post by 4ntonius8lock »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #6
d1zzy wrote: post #3

I hope this doesn't result in e-cigs getting banned in the US because that would be terrible. I live in the same house with someone who has been smoking since they were a teenager (quite common where we're from) and e-cigs has allowed them to stop smoking cigarettes which may or may not benefit them that much but it most certainly benefits me (no smell of smoke in the house, no second hand smoking, etc). They have tr…

> I hope this doesn't result in e-cigs getting banned in the US because that would be terrible. If there is unequivocal, unhacked evidence that e-cigarettes reduce mortality by a sensible comparison in adults, obviously nothing will be banned, but you ought to be able to see why this is a high bar to meet for children.

> obviously nothing will be banned

Tobacco: 500,000

Alcohol Deaths: 88,000

All Non Alcohol Drug Overdoses (including prescriptions): 64,000

Marijuana Deaths: 0

Yearly statistics for the USA. Seems your 'obvious' might not be so obvious for the rest of us.

But then again, I think many 'obvious' things for you are not obvious to the rest of us. Like the muddled thinking related to children: 1st, it's already illegal to sell them to kids 2nd, will kids get them less if they are removed from local retail locations that check ID? Will driving it underground reduce consumption or only increase the dangers of use?

For some, it's obvious that they see it obviously. Others... we see nuance and no clear cut answers. Though many of us dislike such strong and rash positions backed by emotive, reactionary, broad stroke arguments and so little data.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#13

Post by dmix »

andrepd wrote: post #8
dmix wrote: post #5

Me and almost everyone I know who smoked quit using e-cigarettes and they are all adults. But my province (at least the prior party) is obsessed with making them harder and harder to find - at all - because 'think of the children'. I bet the tobacco industry must love governments right now. They were getting seriously threatened for a moment there.

The tobacco industry is pivoting hard to ecigs (in the developed world at least, in more corrupt and less regulated countries they are still happily pushing it on teenagers and lobbying to take down anti-tobacco laws and education drives). It's disgusting. In the US, you've got a massive spike in the number of 12th grade smokers, for the first time in decades. Because ecigs aren't regulated, it's a free for all. The…

You mean “heating”? (“we dont call it Vaping” - every big Tobacco sales rep)

If the tobacco companies have been spending hundreds of millions on R&D for over a decade on electronic cigarettes (not necessarily vaping), which is what some of them claim, then they seriously missed the boat.

I can assure you as a long time customer they don’t have much control in the market, besides trying to buy one like Juul (Juuls are overpriced garbage by the way). There’s a thousand small businesses and shops, making very good money with tons of competition which is quickly improving the products and devices. The difference bigco R&D and launching. It’s also been a boon for Shenzen/China where all the devices are made, not just for e-cigarettes but also for marijuana pens.

But the market is in its early stages I’m sure it will evolve. I’m pretty sure it’s not even close to finished in regards to optimizing the product, they get noticeably much better each year. The anti-social giant cloud thing is also fortunately being replaced by far smaller ones thanks to Nicotine Salts replacing usual e-liquids, which is 90% smaller clouds and dissipate immediately.

Regardless of your ‘think of the kids’ plight that has nothing to do with me as an adult having responsible access to my products. I can do it with alcohol, cigarettes, firearms, and weed here in Canada. These attempts to ban entire categories of products for everyone, not just kids, are dumb. Which is exactly what they are doing.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#14

Post by lotsofpulp »

ceejayoz wrote: post #9
d1zzy wrote: post #3

I hope this doesn't result in e-cigs getting banned in the US because that would be terrible. I live in the same house with someone who has been smoking since they were a teenager (quite common where we're from) and e-cigs has allowed them to stop smoking cigarettes which may or may not benefit them that much but it most certainly benefits me (no smell of smoke in the house, no second hand smoking, etc). They have tr…

The simple solution there seems to be making e-cigs available via a prescription as a smoking cessation/avoidance device.

The simple solution is to not do anything other than require e cigs to advertise the adverse effects of their product. As far as I can tell, they aren’t hurting anyone other than the people that use them. And as a society, I think junk food and carb heavy meals are a costlier disease.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#15

Post by Mirioron »

loeg wrote: post #7
r00fus wrote: post #2

What does "seek FDA review" involve? Is 10m an appropriate lead time, or do we expect to see a lot of extension requests? What's the likelihood that FDA in early 2020 will not again kick the can down the road?

I think the main hurdle is that you have to take a huge pile of money and light it on fire as a sacrifice to the FDA. This obviously limits the number of products and vendors that can participate in the market, although it isn't at all clear that it will reduce uptake by non-smokers.

So, the point of this is to reduce competition from smaller companies?

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#16

Post by RandomTisk »

andrepd wrote: post #8
dmix wrote: post #5

Me and almost everyone I know who smoked quit using e-cigarettes and they are all adults. But my province (at least the prior party) is obsessed with making them harder and harder to find - at all - because 'think of the children'. I bet the tobacco industry must love governments right now. They were getting seriously threatened for a moment there.

The tobacco industry is pivoting hard to ecigs (in the developed world at least, in more corrupt and less regulated countries they are still happily pushing it on teenagers and lobbying to take down anti-tobacco laws and education drives). It's disgusting. In the US, you've got a massive spike in the number of 12th grade smokers, for the first time in decades. Because ecigs aren't regulated, it's a free for all. The…

All the 'cool' kids on Twitch vape these days, it's pretty good marketing for the activity and my guess is that alone accounts for a few percentage points at least of new vapers.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#17

Post by gatherhunterer »

dmix wrote: post #5

Me and almost everyone I know who smoked quit using e-cigarettes and they are all adults. But my province (at least the prior party) is obsessed with making them harder and harder to find - at all - because 'think of the children'. I bet the tobacco industry must love governments right now. They were getting seriously threatened for a moment there.

Where do you think the nicotine in ecigs comes from? For the first time in decades the industry has consumers who would rather be inhaling nicotine than be informed. Why would they be unhappy?

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#18

Post by Symmetry »

4ntonius8lock wrote: post #11
doctorpangloss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope this doesn't result in e-cigs getting banned in the US because that would be terrible. If there is unequivocal, unhacked evidence that e-cigarettes reduce mortality by a sensible comparison in adults, obviously nothing will be banned, but you ought to be able to see why this is a high bar to meet for children.

> obviously nothing will be banned Tobacco: 500,000 Alcohol Deaths: 88,000 All Non Alcohol Drug Overdoses (including prescriptions): 64,000 Marijuana Deaths: 0 Yearly statistics for the USA. Seems your 'obvious' might not be so obvious for the rest of us. But then again, I think many 'obvious' things for you are not obvious to the rest of us. Like the muddled thinking related to children: 1st, it's already illegal to…

Nobody dies from Marijuana overdoses but having smoke in your lungs is having smoke in your lungs whether it comes form a cigarette or a joint or a campfire and it's pretty much equally bad each way. Users tend to spend less time smoking joints than cigarettes but I'd be very surprised if the incidence of lung cancer from marijuana was zero.

Re: Judge Gives E-Cigarette Makers 10 Months to Seek FDA Review

#19

Post by darkpuma »

dmix wrote: post #13
andrepd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tobacco industry is pivoting hard to ecigs (in the developed world at least, in more corrupt and less regulated countries they are still happily pushing it on teenagers and lobbying to take down anti-tobacco laws and education drives). It's disgusting. In the US, you've got a massive spike in the number of 12th grade smokers, for the first time in decades. Because ecigs aren't regulated, it's a free for all. The…

You mean “heating”? (“we dont call it Vaping” - every big Tobacco sales rep) If the tobacco companies have been spending hundreds of millions on R&D for over a decade on electronic cigarettes (not necessarily vaping), which is what some of them claim, then they seriously missed the boat. I can assure you as a long time customer they don’t have much control in the market, besides trying to buy one like Juul (Juuls are…

Where do you think the nicotine in any of these products comes from? The whole damn thing is the tobacco industry, not merely the parts of it wearing the legacy brands on their sleeves.

The reputation of the tobacco industry is well earned. Vigilant regulation is necessary to keep it on a leash.

Post reply on HN