Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average • Hacker News Board

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#171

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:02 PM UTC

kwhitefoot wrote: post #164

Strange article. All it does is recite the statistics but it doesn't explain why anyone should care. It seems from the comments here that solitude is equated with isolation and with loneliness but this is not necessarily the case. I think the problem for many who are lonely is that they feel, perhaps correctly, that they have no choice, no power to change the situation. For me solitude is a necessity but of course if…

> While time spent alone is not necessarily associated with adverse effects, it can be used as a measure of social isolation, which in turn is linked with negative health outcomes among older adults. Medical experts suspect that lifestyle factors may explain some of this association – for instance, someone who is socially isolated may have less cognitive stimulation and more difficulty staying active or taking their medications. In some cases, social isolation may mean there is no one on hand to help in case of a medical emergency.

It's literally bad for you.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#172

Post by jostylr » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:03 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #14

nickthegreek wrote: post #3

My father passed away around 11 years back and it wasn't til several years later that it really hit me that my mom was basically all alone for large portions of her day out on the a country property. I now call her and chat for about 20 minutes a day on my commute home. I know that it has made a huge difference in her life and I feel more connected to her than ever before. I highly recommend that others take some tim…

This is also why a lot of spouses pass soon after the other. They lose hope and the reason to get out of bed each morning. I keep assuming that as jobs are automated away that we are going to have more people who can do work like visiting elderly people. It also can more than pay for itself by keeping people on their medication regimens and preventing costly hospital visits.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationships is not a source of income, but it is what humans are most designed to do and it would be good to have a mechanism that supports that rather than hinders it.

My personal hope is that a UBI leads to real communities where the old and the young have a place in our lives and they stop being seen as problems and as burdens on the middle-aged.

Andrew Yang talks about this a lot in terms of his wife taking care of their children, but the idea equally applies to people taking care of anyone else.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#173

Post by meheleventyone » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:08 PM UTC

stirfrykitty wrote: post #110

drdeadringer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. Recently I watched the Liam Neeson version of "Cold Pursuit". In its honesty and humor, both of which I appreciate to no end, Neeson's character's wife opines in grief on their dead son. "Did you even know his favorite movie? All of those hunting trips, what did you talk about?!?" "... Hunting." So very true and honest in many respects.

Hunting is a very social exercise. My sons are not yet old enough to go without prattling on about this or that, spooking any game worth taking. I'm planning on next season taking one at a time and teaching them the craft and all that goes into it, which is great bonding. My dad was not much of a hunter, but my grandfather was, and because of that, some of my fondest memories are of us hunting doves and rabbits, and…

You realise “British hunting” isn’t egalitarian and the cigars and G&T aren’t going to the people driving game?

I also don’t think the person you replied to was doing down hunting as a social activity but that the movie makes it a stand in for anything done to avoid that social activity.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#174

Post by droithomme » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:08 PM UTC

Perhaps something to look forward to in old age then. I get a lot done when I am left completely alone for about 5 days in a row. Having completed difficult tasks I am then relaxed and ready to socially interact and have a wonderful time, with more meaningful depth and connection than is possible when exhausted from the ordeal of interacting with others on a daily basis.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#175

Post by noir_lord » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:08 PM UTC

Rapidfir3 wrote: post #153

I always read this threads wondering if there's something wrong with me. I just never get lonely. It's kinda a scary thought but I feel like I could go my entire my life not needing to socialize. I'm married so I do socialize obviously with her and her family and my family and my friends but I've never felt any desire to be around any of them (except my wife).

Same, all my favourite activities involve been alone, I don’t even like multiplayer gaming because there are a few too many dickheads, enough to ruin the experience.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#176

Post by Baeocystin » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

stirfrykitty wrote: post #37

I may be in the minority, but the older I get the more I want to be alone. I love my wife and kids, but there is almost too much pressure anymore to do this, do that. There are too many hands on my time. I recharge only when alone. I cannot do it with the TV on, kids in the background, etc. It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. I really like getting up at 0430 and being in the deer b…

>I also dearly miss when IT was in the data center and not accessible to the general office staff.

If you ever find such a magical place again, please let me know if they're hiring!

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#177

Post by e40 » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

nickthegreek wrote: post #3

My father passed away around 11 years back and it wasn't til several years later that it really hit me that my mom was basically all alone for large portions of her day out on the a country property. I now call her and chat for about 20 minutes a day on my commute home. I know that it has made a huge difference in her life and I feel more connected to her than ever before. I highly recommend that others take some tim…

This. My mom emails me once a day, as a heartbeat sort of thing, since she lives alone with her cat. She started this when she read a cat started feeding on her owner after she died.

However, it is often the start of a conversation, and I also call her on the way to work 2-3 times a week. I think it has really kept her mood up, compared to before we did this. She's 80.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#178

Post by asark » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #140

stirfrykitty wrote: post #37

I may be in the minority, but the older I get the more I want to be alone. I love my wife and kids, but there is almost too much pressure anymore to do this, do that. There are too many hands on my time. I recharge only when alone. I cannot do it with the TV on, kids in the background, etc. It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. I really like getting up at 0430 and being in the deer b…

> the older I get the more I want to be alone That was my first thought, as well - I have a wife and two teenaged kids, and they drain absolutely all of my free time. I keep reminding myself that I should be taking advantage and enjoying this time that I have to spend with them because in a few years, they’ll be away and I won’t see them very often, but I do feel like I would like just an hour here and there to pick…

I've found it a hell of a lot harder to actually enjoy time with my kids since we went past one. It's frustrating because I'm not getting alone-time or doing exactly what I want to, as one without any kids might, but I'm also not getting to deeply, mindfully enjoy a very high percentage of time spent with my kids, as I could so easily when we just had one. All it took then was an occasional gentle reminder to myself to stay present. Now... man, it'd take some next-level Zen shit to achieve that with three kids on any kind of regular basis. Even two was a pretty big hit to that kind of quality time. It's achievable with some planning and luck now, basically, when it was just natural and almost constant before.

For me, I think that frustration's the source of my "oh god just drop me on a deserted island with some books and leave me" fantasies. I'd rather be around my kids and enjoying high-quality parent-kid time because it actually is pretty great, but that's so rarely and unpredictably available that the loner route becomes more appealing.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#179

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

jostylr wrote: post #172

snarf21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also why a lot of spouses pass soon after the other. They lose hope and the reason to get out of bed each morning. I keep assuming that as jobs are automated away that we are going to have more people who can do work like visiting elderly people. It also can more than pay for itself by keeping people on their medication regimens and preventing costly hospital visits.

A big hope of the UBI movement is that it will "pay" people to take care of one another in a way that our usual monetary transfer for services rendered simply can't handle well. That is, someone taking care of their parent is not going to be paid for that service in our economy, but with a UBI, it allows one to get that economic support without it being a usual "job". The work of maintaining genuine social relationsh…

I can think of some reasons that a UBI would not be a panacea here. Firstly, in many cases the younger generation has left their hometown for the big city, but the parents are left behind. Even if they got an UBI, few people are going to want to move back to the “middle of nowhere” to take care of their parents.

Secondly, it is now often observed that parents and children, in spite of living under the same roof, are interacting less because the parents are staring at their devices, and children get devices, too. Even if people have the time and money to take care of their parents, do they have the interest in socializing?

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#180

Post by watwut » Fri, Jul 12, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

notus wrote: post #31

This resonates a lot with my experience and reminds me of a short book I read by Sebastian Junger called Tribe. His focus is more on the tribal aspect of military life and that the disassociation with a close knit group or a tribe is part of what leads to PTSD as there are quite a few people who have been in the military who have PTSD despite not ever being in combat. He claims that in smaller tribal communities ment…

Where does he has the "less mental problems in situation of hardship" from? I used to read a lot of survivors accounts from WWII and Rwanda and such and there was not such thing. Mental issues did not get better, they were harder to deal with and caused additional risk.

Also, suicide rates were higher suggesting that mental situation was not all that great.