Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article makes it sound like the AI is trained by evaluating results of decisions it makes on a per-hand basis. Is there any sense in which the AI learns about strategies that depend upon multiple hands? I’m thinking of bluffing/detecting bluffs and identifying recent patterns, which is something human poker players talk about.
The bot handles each hand independently. How the players play in one hand does not affect how the bot plays in future hands at all. That said, it did train by playing against itself (before the experiment against the humans began).
No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
281–290 of 407 posts
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
The bot bluffs, and understands that when its opponent bets it might be a bluff. I would consider that to be strategic behavior. The fact that its strategy is determined by a mathematical process doesn't change that in my opinion.
It does bluff, but that’s not my point. My issue is that it bluffs without consideration of its opponent. High level strategic play of most games is about adapting to your opponents play. This bot does not do that. It is secretly a giant lookup table of game state to response. In the case of poker, it appears that adaptability is not as good as pure mathematical optimization. Humans can adapt their strategy, but it’s…
Is this true in any meaningful sense?
For heavily studied games there's usually a theoretically optimal play independent of the opponent's interior state, this is obviously true for all the "Solved" games, which includes the simpler Heads Up Limit Hold 'Em poker (solved by Alberta's Cepheus project) but it seem pretty clearly true for as-yet unsolved games like Go and Chess too.
I'm very impressed by this achievement because I had expected good multi-player poker AI (as opposed to simple colluding bots found online making money today) to be some years away. But I would not expect "adaptability" to ever be a sensible way forward for winning a single strategy game.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#283Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#284With the advent of AI bots in Poker, Chess etc., what happens to the old adage of "Play the player, not the game". How do modern human players manage when you don't have the psychological aspects of the game to work with? I see on chess channels that grand masters have to rethink their whole game preparation methodology to cope with the "Alpha Zero" oddities that have now been introduced into this ancient game. They…
However, even according to the former world champion (Viswanathan Anand) the run he's been on is something quite shocking: “His results this year is simply [great].... difficult to find words. [It’s been] completely off the charts. I think the chess world is still in a bit of a shock. The rest of the players are struggling to deal with a phenomenon [like him]. Even in 2012-13, his domination was less than it is this year. Everyone is still processing this information.” [1]
Carlsen is basically on route to breaking 2900 Elo - at 2882 Elo with a clear upwards trend - while there's only two other active players even above 2800 Elo and struggling to keep it above that treshold. (Elo is the rating system used in chess. Above 1500 Elo is an average player, 2000 Elo is a good player, 2500 Elo is a grandmaster. Anything above 2700 Elo is basically godlike.)
Oddly enough, instead of playing more like a machine, it seems like Carlsen has been playing chess that is much more about the human aspect of the game rather than trying to find the top ranked engine move on every turn. (The current traditional top engine - Stockfish - makes an assumption of each move's validity using a point system, which the chess world has been more or less obsessing over for the past decade. Alpha Zero doesn't have such a point system whatsoever.) He's been playing a drastically more aggressive and dynamic variety of chess compared to what has been seen in a long time at the top tournaments.
He's been playing to create dizzying positions on the board, making a few moves that aren't necessarily liked by the traditional top engines, but still finding himself in a winning position several moves after. It definitely looks like some sort of black magic, but it seems like the big thing Alpha Zero has brought to the general philosophy on how to approach chess at the top level is that it's possible to play aggressive chess, take risks and win in 2019. Magnus Carlsen is the first player to successfully reinvent that style of play, more than likely partly inspired by Alpha Zero. So, I'd say the big thing about Alpha Zero isn't necessarily that it could beat the other top engines, but more importantly that the 'artistic' aspect of its play is something that has never been seen from another chess engine. The fact that it proved that sort of style superior to the play ever before played by another chess engine is just the icing on the cake.
Garry Kasparov on Alpha Zero's chess persona: "I admit that I was pleased to see that AlphaZero had a dynamic, open style like my own. The conventional wisdom was that machines would approach perfection with endless dry maneuvering, usually leading to drawn games. But in my observation, AlphaZero prioritizes piece activity over material, preferring positions that to my eye looked risky and aggressive." [2]
[1] https://sportstar.thehindu.com/chess/viswanathan-anand-on-ma... [2] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6419/1087
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's my understanding the big sites have some pretty sophisticated bot detection systems, so in theory a bot that would be successful at beating online poker couldn't be a huge winner, it'd presumably raise too many red flags. However, if it were a near break-even player, with dozens, if not hundreds, of instances running at any given time, it's going to slowly grind out a substantial figure. You'd also have to take…
>You'd also have to take into account that the sites are monitoring things like reaction times to bets and raises, hand range consistency, etc. You might be surprised by the lengths people go to in order to bypass bot-detection just for ordinary games. All of the things you mentioned are pretty standard. Considering there is serious money on the line here, I am positive that plenty of poker bots will be virtually ind…
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess the real threat isn't a "bot" but something in the way of a program that interprets the data on the screen real-time and whose output instructs the player of the "optimal" play, given the circumstances. How the hell would you deter that as a site operator?
No, I think your earlier example of a swarm of just-above-break-even bots would be much more difficult to combat. Even if they can be detected, the anti-detection countermeasures can evolve, turning it into an arms race. Anything you can model in your bot detection algorithm, the bot-maker can model too. Reaction times ought to be one of the easiest things to fake. All it would take is a bunch of monitoring of large…
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, I am thinking "sit and go" tournament where you would have 6 players like in this research.
Is there much to do here? ICM bots have this space covered pretty effectively.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#288It's easy to "take away" too much information from this. The focus is that an AI poker bot "did this" and not get too much into other adjacent subjects. But what's the fun in that? 10,000 hands in an interesting number. If you search the poker forums, you'll see this is the number you'll see people throw out there for how many hands you need to see before you can analyze your play. You then make adjustments and see a…
If you read the paper/facebook post[0] (no idea why this worse article is the link here) - you'll see they address this.
>Although poker is a game of skill, there is an extremely large luck component as well. It is common for top professionals to lose money even over the course of 10,000 hands of poker simply because of bad luck. To reduce the role of luck, we used a version of the AIVAT variance reduction algorithm, which applies a baseline estimate of the value of each situation to reduce variance while still keeping the samples unbiased. For example, if the bot is dealt a really strong hand, AIVAT will subtract a baseline value from its winnings to counter the good luck. This adjustment allowed us to achieve statistically significant results with roughly 10x fewer hands than would normally be needed.
0. https://ai.facebook.com/blog/pluribus-first-ai-to-beat-pros-...
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#289Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#290I'm one of the authors of the bot, AMA