I'm one of the authors of the bot, AMA
Any chance you’ll consider releasing the hand history of the session?
No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
271–280 of 407 posts
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#272I'm one of the authors of the bot, AMA
Congratulations on the win! Can you recommend any papers, blog(post)s, or books for the interested layman? (I am currently scanning though the facebook post, which is great, but personally I am looking for something more technical).
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#273It's easy to "take away" too much information from this. The focus is that an AI poker bot "did this" and not get too much into other adjacent subjects.
But what's the fun in that?
10,000 hands in an interesting number. If you search the poker forums, you'll see this is the number you'll see people throw out there for how many hands you need to see before you can analyze your play. You then make adjustments and see another 10,000 hands before you can assess those changes.
In 2019, it's impractical to adapt as a competitive player in live poker. A grinder can see 10,000 hands within a day. The live poker room took 12 days. Another characteristic of online poker is that players can also use data to their advantage.
So, I wouldn't consider 10K hands as long term, even if this was a period of 12 days. Once players get a chance to adapt, then they'll increase their rate of wins against a bot. Once you have a history of hand histories being shared, then it's all over. And again, give these players their own software tools.
Remember that one of the most exciting events in online poker was the run of isildur1. That run was put to rest when he went bust against players who had studied thousands of his hand histories.
This doesn't take away from the development of the bot. If we learn something from it, then all good.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#274I wonder what would be the impact of using Counterfactual Regret Minimization instead of training a neural network based on hands played by real players?
Whys is using CFR better than training based on real data?
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
do you still play online? I used to railbird FT back then, watching patrick antonius/sahamies/durr/jungleman etc. exciting times. How many hours did you put in for you to be good?
> do you still play online? No longer online. I quit with UIGEA. I hate Bill Frist. > I used to railbird FT back then, watching patrick antonius/sahamies/durr/jungleman etc. exciting times. I never played with those folks. For reference (and maybe I was vague, and maybe I show my age), plo 200 is 1/2 blinds plo, and 2000 plo is 10/20 blinds plo. My heyday was when 10/20 blinds were the max. When they created the 50/1…
Aw fuck, how could I forget...
I also played against Mike the Mouth (either party or FT). I think that this was when they limited the 5/10 and 10/20 games to two tables each.
I played Mike in both plo8 and plo, and he was supposed to be a specialist. He was an absolute donator in the games I played in. He took really bad lines, and he was a net loser over a statistically insignificant number of hands. That said, if he was at the table, I wanted to play, and I wasn’t leaving until he got up. He was very exploitable.
To be fair, I don’t know what his life situation was like at that time (it was up and down from what I heard). That said, I wanted him at my table 100% of the time.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
will you release the source code?
Our goal is to make the research as accessible as possible to the AI community, so we include descriptions of the algorithms and pseudocode in the supplementary material. However, in part due to the potential negative impact this code could have on online poker, we're not releasing the code itself.
While you are not releasing the code to the general public, some people who worked on it obviously have access to it and someone will likely use it in the wild. The potential profits are astronomical - Rob Reitzen solved limit hold 'em and made what is rumored to be over $100 million hiring women to play online poker using his system from his house in Beverly Hills [1].
Did you guys set any rules as to whether or not members of the team that worked on this are allowed to use it?
[1] https://www.cigaraficionado.com/index.php/article/robotic-po...
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#277I was thinking a year ago about using Deep Reinforcement Learning in a poker bot what stopped me was the impossible amount of data and computation due to imperfect information nature of poker games. If I'll have the time I'll try to implement thing akin to the search technique described in the paper.
It might pay better than a full time job.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
All the major online chess websites have anti-cheat mechanisms. They don't publish details of how they detect cheaters though, and I don't know how good they are. From what I've read, they work by comparing the player's moves against chess engines, and if the player is picking engine's choice too often in positions where there are multiple roughly equal moves, they get flagged.
I always found weird that someone would want to cheat in a game like online chess. I mean, what's the point? Does anyone have insight on what's going on in the head of cheaters?
it's where the enjoyment comes from. cheaters don't enjoy the game as much as they seeing their ELO/MMR go up or in the worst case they're psychopaths who just want to mess with other people's heads.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#279It's easy to "take away" too much information from this. The focus is that an AI poker bot "did this" and not get too much into other adjacent subjects. But what's the fun in that? 10,000 hands in an interesting number. If you search the poker forums, you'll see this is the number you'll see people throw out there for how many hands you need to see before you can analyze your play. You then make adjustments and see a…
You clearly didn’t read the additional links they posted. They mentioned why they chose 10k (AIVAT), and it goes far beyond any of the variables you mentioned.
For any number of hands, my money is on the bot.
Re: No limit: AI poker bot is first to beat professionals at multiplayer game
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's my understanding the big sites have some pretty sophisticated bot detection systems, so in theory a bot that would be successful at beating online poker couldn't be a huge winner, it'd presumably raise too many red flags. However, if it were a near break-even player, with dozens, if not hundreds, of instances running at any given time, it's going to slowly grind out a substantial figure. You'd also have to take…
Poker sites mainly detect bots based on their login times, number of tables, time per action, etc. A successful bot shouldn't get caught for "playing like a bot" because the moment it's actions are that predictable it would presumably no longer be effective. But it will get caught for operating like a bot. So, don't run it 24hrs a day. Sites also randomize things to keep bots at bay, even card imagery. If your perfor…
Just play as you normally would, with the bot advising moves from the laptop next to you.