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US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#31

Post by fyoving »

nolok wrote: post #15
fyoving wrote: post #3

Shouldn't be a long inquiry, this tax is textbook discriminatory trade barrier. If you look at EU policy as france and germany protecting their perceived interests by targeting US tech companies it starts making sense, I think a rule of thumb there is: "if it hurts google it should be law".

> by targeting US tech companies It does not. In a preliminary evaluation, there are 26 companies that would match the criterias, 11 are not americans, 4 of them (that's 1/6th) are even french companies to begin with. • Vente de biens: Alibaba, Amazon, Apple, Ebay, Google, Groupon, Rakuten, Schibsted, Wish, Zalando. • Intermédiaire de services: Amadeus, Axel Springer, Booking, Expedia, Match.com, Randstad, Recruit, S…

If my math is correct then most of the companies are American, and by far most of the potential revenue.

Considering the rhetoric leading to this tax and the french government's many raids and failed investigations into US companies and their taxes it's difficult even with careful wording for the french government to deny the actual target of this tax in a WTO type setting.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#32

Post by bantunes »

pjc50 wrote: post #30

National sovereignty versus globalisation again. Is it reasonable for a company to make profits from customers in a country and then not pay that country's profit-based taxes? (Also, the US trying to bully France on this one is unlikely to go well, that tends to trigger a French nationalist response.)

It's not reasonable. But it sure is profitable.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#33

Post by jklepatch »

geocar wrote: post #28
jklepatch wrote: post #16

US has a trade deficit with France. So potentially there is more to loose for France in case of a trade war: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4279.html And generally speaking the US has a trade deficit with Europe: https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/europe... My understanding of the economic system between the US and the world is that other countries support the US dollar by using it f…

Not sure I agree with the analysis, at least on France. France's top exports to the US are aircraft parts and beverages (wine). Since the US needs those parts to export the (assembled) planes, I think the aircraft lobby (e.g. Boeing) will press hard to prevent a tariff here because it'd raise rates across the board, so that leaves wine: My hunch is even a 100% tariff on wine is unlikely to dissuade anyone from purcha…

Thanks for this precision. Knowing this detail about aircraft parts seems to change the dynamic though.

I have to disagree with one point though:

“American wine is better than French wine....” (gulp!).

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#34

Post by kodz4 »

nolok wrote: post #5
dustinmoris wrote: post #2

The US can continue to bully everyone around them, but one day there will be no friends left and while the US is starting a trade war (or even an actual war) with friends and enemies other nations will strengthen their relations and the power balance will shift eventually. China has been on track to overtake the US as the largest economy for many years now. The US obviously feels threatened by the shift of economic p…

I don't stricly disagree (nor agree) with your comment, but there are several thing that you include as "a global grave issue of the western world" in general but is actually very US-centric. When I look at the list you give, "people live divided, in poverty, exploited, plagued by suicide, mental health issues, obesity and mass shootings", it's not that those issues don't exists in other countries, but in the western…

The US is a much more diverse population and a much larger population. It's going to be more chaotic than anything the Europeans have to deal with.

But dealing with that chaos, at that scale, produces lessons and learning that won't happen anywhere else, other than probably India.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#35

Post by luckylion »

csomar wrote: post #26

> Countries including France and the UK have accused firms of routing some profits through low-tax EU member states such as Ireland and Luxembourg. This seems to be the problem. The EU laws have allowed these companies to avoid taxes. Small countries just next to France (Luxembourg) are able to help these companies. But France will not go against these countries and instead try to handle things through taxes. I don't…

> But France will not go against these countries and instead try to handle things through taxes.

France cannot change Luxembourg's business model (help tax evasion in neighboring countries, live off of EU subsidies), it has no jurisdiction there. They can change their tax code though.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#36

Post by jklepatch »

csomar wrote: post #26

> Countries including France and the UK have accused firms of routing some profits through low-tax EU member states such as Ireland and Luxembourg. This seems to be the problem. The EU laws have allowed these companies to avoid taxes. Small countries just next to France (Luxembourg) are able to help these companies. But France will not go against these countries and instead try to handle things through taxes. I don't…

Get a bank account? If you are not a US resident, good luck with that. And i dont know what a company will be good for without a bank account.

As for buying shares in the US, there is a 30pct tax for non-resident alien.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#37

Post by rusk »

jklepatch wrote: post #33
geocar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I agree with the analysis, at least on France. France's top exports to the US are aircraft parts and beverages (wine). Since the US needs those parts to export the (assembled) planes, I think the aircraft lobby (e.g. Boeing) will press hard to prevent a tariff here because it'd raise rates across the board, so that leaves wine: My hunch is even a 100% tariff on wine is unlikely to dissuade anyone from purcha…

Thanks for this precision. Knowing this detail about aircraft parts seems to change the dynamic though. I have to disagree with one point though: “American wine is better than French wine....” (gulp!).

Maybe white wine, but reds? Euch Merlot ...

EDIT though I do like a nice Zinfandel, the sheer range offered by the French producers is unmatched.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#38

Post by fyoving »

nolok wrote: post #24
fyoving wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with recent tariffs, US tariffs are still generally low, it's hardly a poster child for "protectionism", the EU has other barriers in addition to tariffs and much of it is due to french protectionism. If you think that these "loopholes" should be closed then close them for all companies and countries, don't enact discriminatory laws and then act indignant about it.

The US strong protectionism is not through tariffs but through tax incentives, targeted investments hidden as national security contracts and things like "buy american" acts. Just because you dress it up doesn't change what it actually is.

Are you litigating the boeing v airbus thing? didn't the WTO rule that airbus is receiving billions in illegal subsidies?

And are you suggesting that france doesn't subside specific industries?

If you're complaints are exclusive to the aviation and defence industries then a US complaint regarding the EU and france could include that and every other industry.

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#39

Post by jklepatch »

rusk wrote: post #37
jklepatch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this precision. Knowing this detail about aircraft parts seems to change the dynamic though. I have to disagree with one point though: “American wine is better than French wine....” (gulp!).

Maybe white wine, but reds? Euch Merlot ... EDIT though I do like a nice Zinfandel, the sheer range offered by the French producers is unmatched.

I might have to try more american wine before making a definite opinion. Where are the best wine produced in america? California?

Re: US launches inquiry into French plan to tax tech giants

#40

Post by chmod775 »

fyoving wrote: post #21
Ragnarork wrote: post #12

Quite funny of the US to complain about protectionism. I guess that's the paradox attached to it. When you do it it's fine, when someone else does it and you're affected, suddenly it's "discriminatory". Well yeah it's always been discriminatory in nature. They make a profit somewhere, they pay their taxes, period. Those loopholes need to be closed.

Even with recent tariffs, US tariffs are still generally low, it's hardly a poster child for "protectionism", the EU has other barriers in addition to tariffs and much of it is due to french protectionism. If you think that these "loopholes" should be closed then close them for all companies and countries, don't enact discriminatory laws and then act indignant about it.

> the EU has higher tariffs

The estimated trade weighted average of tariffs by the US after the tariff announcements in 2017 was 2.2%. I couldn't find any more recent number. [1]

For the EU this appears to be around 1.8% (2017). [2]

It is true that the EU used to have higher tariffs though, but I don't think this is still true with the new, recent tariffs by the US.

You can find the old number of 1.7% by the US in the second link I provided.

In any case those numbers are still low. The US was at 2.3% and the EU at 3% in 2015. [3]

[1]: http://www.iberglobal.com/files/2018/Trade-Wars_CPB.pdf Page 10

[2]: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/tm.tax.mrch.wm.ar.zs

[3]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44291103

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