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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#91

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

> Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"?

I don't intend to speak to various other merits (or the lack thereof) of Libra, but to this: yes?

Of course! Transaction fees are huge. If you are operating in a razor-margin business, which more and more businesses are these days, then it adds up.

FasTrak, the Bay Area toll processor, charges your card when you drop below a certain balance, and also charges you what they think your average monthly rate will be. Why? To avoid excessive transaction fees on every toll eating into their coffers.

If the only way to buy something is Libra, or if merchants prefer Libra, then folks will be using Libra. Just look at how much market share PayPal has conquered, and they're arguable garbage.

If you can substantially beat PayPal, you win.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#92

Post by hajile »

carlosdp wrote: post #85
hajile wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're talking about controlling money, politics matter more than "technical merit". Libra is invite only and they invited their business friends. Libra consortium is based in Switzerland, so the businesses involved have guaranteed essentially zero government oversight. Libra's owners have complete control over how much currency, the currency exchange rate, and even inflation rates (note that inflation is actual…

> Libra is invite only and they invited their business friends. That's a big assumption. They were able to get their business friends to sign on, probably because they are already friends. I'm sure they asked a lot of other groups that were more hesitant, it would have made the initial announcement much more powerful. Also important to note non-profits, NGOs, and universities are included, and they don't have to pay…

The initial business group is invite only. My understanding is that they get to decide who else (if anyone) joins.

The real money in banking is in giving good loans. The more personal and immediate your info, the better the loan you can make. Reduced losses lower interest rates or boost profits. Facebook data is the big reason this all make sense for them.

Facebook's anonymous claim is simply a lie. Most people will have known accounts at signup. Even if not, the record of their spending habits ties in with their Facebook habits. For the rest, touching known accounts in the network means you know them or have contacted them. Even a very small number of transactions should be enough to identify the user.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#93

Post by MuffinFlavored »

carlosdp wrote: post #86
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with potentially big negative or positive consequences for the entire world. What are some of the biggest positive consequences potentially offered by Libra in your opinion?

Literally what they say it's designed for: giving access to the digital economy to the 500m+ people in emerging markets that have internet + phone, but no banking services.

> giving access to the digital economy to the 500m+ people in emerging markets that have internet + phone, but no banking services.

I don't really understand the flow.

They are paid in cash for working their low wage jobs now.

How is the cash going to become Libra? Through... what is basically a banking service? Which they don't have access to now?

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#94

Post by [deleted] »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

[deleted]

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#95

Post by TomMckenny »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

>Why would anyone want to use Libra?

Money laundering. You'd no longer need to buy a condo in New York to get your rubles into dollars.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#96

Post by lightgreen »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

> Why would they go through the extra step(s)?

Extra step can be very simple: your libra wallet can be auto topped up from credit card.

> Only vendors, not customers, see those fees directly.

A lot of small shops around the world (like one next to my home) do not accept Amex because of higher Amex fees. And require cash if total cost is less then several bucks. Maybe these shops will eventually stop accepting Visa and MasterCard and/or allow libra on even smallest transactions.

> Facebook REALLY makes people nervous.

Are you talking about common people or people who visit HN frequently? I doubt common people really care about their data shared with advertisers. Even I don’t really care.

And again, Facebook will be not the only provider of libra.

> Why would anyone want to use Libra?

To be able to send money to your parents living abroad. To pay on vacation and don’t worry about conversion rates. To be able to send small debts to your friends easily. And so on.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#97

Post by dx87 »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #93
carlosdp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally what they say it's designed for: giving access to the digital economy to the 500m+ people in emerging markets that have internet + phone, but no banking services.

> giving access to the digital economy to the 500m+ people in emerging markets that have internet + phone, but no banking services. I don't really understand the flow. They are paid in cash for working their low wage jobs now. How is the cash going to become Libra? Through... what is basically a banking service? Which they don't have access to now?

Might be like how people without a bank go to various businesses that will cash their check for a fee, except they'll give the business cash and get Libra transferred to their account.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#98

Post by goristerHAN »

spookthesunset wrote: post #25
r32a_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or choose Bitcoin and have neither :)

Great until you bump up against that 7 transactions per second limit, the entire planet adopts it and and you get to wait multiple decades between transactions. And before you say “lightning network” do realize that LN doesn’t exist and even if it did your solution is to avoid using bitcoin. Setting aside you still have to make transactions on the bitcoin blockchain before you can even play ball with LN. Bitcoin/cryp…

You think the LN doesn't exist? What? There are dozens of LN visual explores out there. Who told you this lie?

The whole point of using LN is to use Bitcoin as a settlement layer. You make one initial transaction to open a channel and that's it. In the future users will onboard directly into LN channels anyway. On chain scaling is still important. Ethereum 2.0 will likely do over 10,000 tx/sec. Don't know about Bitcoin.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#99

Post by lightgreen »

TomMckenny wrote: post #95
IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

>Why would anyone want to use Libra? Money laundering. You'd no longer need to buy a condo in New York to get your rubles into dollars.

I don’t understand, how buying a condo in New York helps you converting rubles into dollars.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#100

Post by the_watcher »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #83

I'm asking this in all seriousness. Why would anyone want to use Libra? Let's say a consumer wants to buy something. They can either pay with "normal" money in one step or they can use their phone to convert their money into Libra and then make the purchase with Libra. Why would they go through the extra step(s)? Am I to believe that the benefit is "lower transaction fees"? Because if so, Libra doesn't have a chance.…

When vendors see transaction fees, they pass them on to consumers. Sometimes it's in the form of "$X minimum for credit card transaction", other times it's passing the costs though silently, other times it's not accepting cards at all. In the developing worlds, what we consider trivial fees for a vendor to accept are anything but.
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