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Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

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Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#81

Post by amaccuish »

153791098c wrote: post #59
TallGuyShort wrote: post #50

Does the Hurd team go around lecturing people who call it "Hurd" about how it's actually "GNU"/Hurd, how Hurd is the kernel and that's only one part, or is that only when the kernel wasn't their idea?

Hurd is a GNU project so it doesn't even really need a second mention, it only needs that mention because there is a competing kernel (Linux) that is used with the system. Otherwise it's just known as the GNU system. The kernel is pretty irrelevant for most users, we don't call it Android/Linux or Windows/NT for a reason. A kernel is not an operating system. Calling the whole OS Linux is both inaccurate and does not…

> The kernel is pretty irrelevant for most users

For most users, so is the command line. So when a user is on a Gnome desktop, we can call it Gnome/Linux right? Since a normal user doesn't touch the terminal?

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#82

Post by dang »

knocte wrote: post #5
jasonvorhe wrote: post #2

I'm curious, but why are people still spending time and resources on Hurd? Is it curiosity or is there some use case for Hurd that I'm not aware of? Thanks.

You don't know the fundamental difference between Hurd and Linux, do you?

Please don't post dismissive comments like this. If you know more, share what you know so the rest of us can learn. If you don't want to do that or don't have time, that's fine, but then please just don't post anything.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#83

Post by anyfoo »

harry8 wrote: post #32
zitterbewegung wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The L4 microkernel is currently being used by Apple in the secure enclave. See https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209632

Looks interesting. My former colleagues worked on porting osx to l4 more than a decade ago. That still doesn't look like a microkernel based, multi server os to me and does not claim to exhibit those of touted advantages. This reminds me more of dresdens live demo cd from about 2006. Great stuff, but more of a virtualisation layer than an os. I'd like to see it stand up.

Just out of curiosity, are you saying you don’t think the OS running on the Secure Enclave processor (which is separate from the main OS) looks like a multi server microkernel, or are you still referring to the osx on L4 Experiment you mentioned?

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#84

Post by [deleted] »

harry8 wrote: post #18
robotbikes wrote: post #12

I think that it is exciting that people are still working on Hurd and there is a new release synced with Buster. I think there is latent potential in microkernels and that we may actually be at in position to exploit some of the benefits such as heightened security and stability. While at the same time the performance cost of context switching could be reduced due to the higher number of cores on modern chips (especi…

Well I've been hearing about those benefits for at least 20 years. None yet actually sighted in the wild. Any attempted explanations from the microkernel religious zealots has been thoroughly unconvincing (because mach is slow, so?). Maybe you're right, I'd love to see it if you are. But while prior performance is no guarantee of the future, as they say in the funds management adverts, a pattern of repeated failure i…

[deleted]

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#85

Post by earenndil »

gnulinux wrote: post #75
TallGuyShort wrote: post #50

Does the Hurd team go around lecturing people who call it "Hurd" about how it's actually "GNU"/Hurd, how Hurd is the kernel and that's only one part, or is that only when the kernel wasn't their idea?

Hurd is the official kernel of GNU project, so essentially it's just GNU. You could call it Debian GNU but I guess since that's confusing they decided to call it Debian GNU/Hurd.

Debian GNU/GNU?

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#87

Post by pjmlp »

dang wrote: post #79
pjmlp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it looks like you have some issues pending with L4 folks, that's alright. Meanwhile the industry will keep on slowly adopting micro-kernel inspired best practices, even if you don't see any benefit in doing so. Now hop to reading a bit more about Driver Kit on Catalina.

You repeatedly crossed into snark in this thread, and fed the flamewar. Please don't. It's against the site guidelines, and we're trying for something better than that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry about that.

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd 2019 Released

#89

Post by gnulinux »

earenndil wrote: post #85
gnulinux wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hurd is the official kernel of GNU project, so essentially it's just GNU. You could call it Debian GNU but I guess since that's confusing they decided to call it Debian GNU/Hurd.

Debian GNU/GNU?

I mean "GNU/Linux" is supposed to mean "GNU with Linux" i.e. GNU userspace with Linux kernel. GNU/GNU makes some sense but clearly is redundant. It's just GNU as in GNU userspace and kernel.
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