Assholes: A Probing Examination • Hacker News Board

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#161

Post by DonHopkins » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

Hasknewbie wrote: post #125

marksweston wrote: post #85

> It may seem “unfair” to toy with the idea of losing the assholes, particularly the unintentional assholes. Since they “don’t know better” it seems almost cruel to let them go simply because they’re making everyone around them miserable, and it somehow feels like a smaller request to have 50 people tolerate one asshole’s behavior than to demand one asshole figure out how to not alienate everyone with whom they inter…

Yes, this article felt like reading the rant of a scientologist about 'suppressive persons'...

Your intolerance of religion has been noted, and will go on your permanent record. ;)

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#162

Post by mbubb » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #77

Hello, my name is Cole and I can be an asshole. The definition posted of an asshole casts a very wide net making discussion difficult. Diversity is important and it isn't just about sex and skin color. People act differently, people have different priorities, confidence varies, life situations outside of work alters behavior as do medical conditions and treatments. Different cultures even in this country value vastly…

Excellent reply. I make the joke ot myself "you are always the last to know that you are the asshole". I think there are systemic problems which can cause folks to be 'assholes' against their best attempts to do otherwise. The original article hugely oversimplifies this. (Not a big fan of the Aspbergers exclusion, though - I see this used a lot)

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#163

Post by raxxorrax » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #142

raxxorrax wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why i really dislike the diversity-crowd (straw-man here...). The only result were some laws obligating people to explicitly name the minorities of the month. The only proponent of this is the HR department. Nah, not really, but they have to. The diversity crowds achievement was to give corporations more power. If I were belong to a minority, I wouldn't dislike the diversity crowd, I would hate them with unre…

It's easy to "imagine" what you would do if you were a minority. Especially when you haven't lived it. Your asking for diversity of behavior, but you seem to expect everyone to respond like they had your experiences and background.

It is for anyone who has been an outsider in a social setting. This article describes methods to identify certain character traits and isolating them. This is pretty clear cut for anyone who actually has relevant experience.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#164

Post by DonHopkins » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

klenwell wrote: post #7

> Asshole behavior begets additional asshole behavior from others. Non-assholes are hardened into assholes over time to survive, and a spiral of incivility reigns. I've been infected by this before. Never again. (I prefer to slap up so I ended up getting shown the door.) Before we go through a hiring round with my team nowadays, I like us to review what I've seen approvingly referred to over on Metafilter as The Babo…

>''And if baboons can do it,'' he said, ''why not us? The bad news is that you might have to first knock out all the most aggressive males to get there.''

Register to vote!

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#165

Post by mbubb » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

Udik wrote: post #67

glangdale wrote: post #59

This article is overly fixated on overt assholery. Much of the worst asshole behavior I've encountered has been done by people who are outwardly polite and high functioning and have often never had a cross word for anyone. I would much rather get a tersely worded group email (ooo) than have to do someone else's job for them. Let's be frank. The #1 asshole thing not mentioned here is (shouting and swearing alert) NOT…

> the root of the situation is that (a) someone isn't doing their actual job in a remotely competent way Not really. I've worked with several assholes. They were all extremely assertive, and usually also very competent (but I've found also the utterly incompetent ones). The problem is that even if they're right 95% of the time, the 5% of the times they're wrong they force everybody along the wrong path, because their…

agree and disagree here - you can have someone who is very competent and sees what needs to be done but has trouble communicating the plan

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#166

Post by DonHopkins » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

signa11 wrote: post #36

eyeball wrote: post #29

Hard to solve when asshole number one is the top person in the department.

vote with your feet ?

Kick them in the ass?

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#167

Post by HelloNurse » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #64

This article builds on the premise that a few employees are assholes and none of the managers are. In my experience, the reality is the exact opposite, where all managers (especially those at the higher level) are assholes. In that case, none of the considerations of the article seem to be useful. Yet, it is a fun read, especially the "unrelated" pictures and the colorful language. I am surprised by this sentence: >…

If a job description "formalizes social skills" I expect very distressing interviews in which HR idiots are going to judge my personality and my values and an oppressive environment in which, for instance, managers are going to draw a line between disagreeing and having a bad attitude.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#168

Post by DonHopkins » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

appwiz wrote: post #4

The last paragraph is pure gold!

He forgot to mention the important roll of a long paper trail for cleanly wiping out assholes.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#169

Post by mbubb » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

There are assholes who are "constraints" (in the "Goal" or "Phoenix Project" meaning of this word). The newer incarnation of the BOFH. How do you get around this? This is a problem at the core of devops (as an idea not as the pseudo position). Management should look at constraints to see where the likely conditions for assholery are.

Re: Assholes: A Probing Examination

#170

Post by gnull » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

pnutjam wrote: post #142

raxxorrax wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why i really dislike the diversity-crowd (straw-man here...). The only result were some laws obligating people to explicitly name the minorities of the month. The only proponent of this is the HR department. Nah, not really, but they have to. The diversity crowds achievement was to give corporations more power. If I were belong to a minority, I wouldn't dislike the diversity crowd, I would hate them with unre…

It's easy to "imagine" what you would do if you were a minority. Especially when you haven't lived it. Your asking for diversity of behavior, but you seem to expect everyone to respond like they had your experiences and background.

> It's easy to "imagine" what you would do if you were a minority. Especially when you haven't lived it.

A better way to run the argument would be to address the substance of raxxorrax's argument here, for example by pointing out any specific problem with the way he imagines what minorities feel. Instead, you doubted his ability to imagine it, despite you don't know him at all.

This is just an ad hominem attack.