Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#391

Post by HeWhoLurksLate » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #316

stickfigure wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just last week bought a pristine, maxed-out 2015 MacBook Pro. Yet I think you're wrong about most of this. * I hate magsafe. I've owned a dozen of these and almost all of them have come apart just behind the magsafe connector. Expensive, proprietary, and fragile. I would much much rather have USB-C than shell out $90 every two years. * USB-C is great. A bunch of different ports means carrying a bunch of different c…

> The new keyboard. The ergonomics are fine, but I am hard on keyboards and nevertheless expect 5+ years of duty (my last machine was bought new in 2013, and just wasn't cutting it with 8G of RAM). I can't have an unreliable and expensive keyboard. I just don't get it. I've had my MPB with the new keyboard for 9 months now and I hate it more than ever. The ergonomics are absolutely terrible, the layout (particularly…

Personally, I have an older wired Apple "chiclet" keyboard (short-throw, not long) and I can hit ~120 WPM on it- which is way above the 90 WPM max I get on a clicky mechanical keyboard (Cherry Blue / Green / Red).

I don't like their new keyboards, and I have a Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard which I love to use, too, but Apple's slightly older keyboards have a spot in my heart.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#392

Post by kumoflow » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #259

fogetti wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Macbook Air (2017 version) which I spilled a can of beer into. I thought it was dead but after leaving it to rest for a few days it resurrected from the dead and it works ever since like nothing happened. I love that machine. Indestructible.

While I am happy for you, I am also pretty surprised and would be interested in more details. A full can of beer is 355 mL, so how much beer are we talking about here? Are the keys not sticky at all?

I have a mbp 2018 (with touch bar)

I dropped a full bottle of gin on it last week. The bottle literally broke over my open backpack with the mbp there. It seemed like I threw it on the distillery.

After letting it fully dry, isssues are:

- Couple small spots on the monitor. I think water got inside between the glass and display. They were very big (20% of the screen) and been reducing and now just 2 small spots (maybe 2-3%). These don't seem to reduce anymore but I will try to see if applying some subtle heat over will make them disappear. - At first a couple keys didn't work, but now just the P and S seem to sometimes not register a tap, but when I press again, I get two of them. Not exactly sure what is going on or if it will go away. I would say it happens once every 20 or so taps (funny, writing happens there caused it on both the s and the p :))

Apart from that, all seems to be working fine. I can't say if it will continue, but I was sure it would be 'trash' after I saw what happen. Super happy it is working

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#393

Post by sroussey » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

gurkendoktor wrote: post #380

pmart123 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people made the same argument when Jobs removed the cd drive from laptops. It seemed like an issue at the time given most software was still installed from CDs. After a two year dark period where you had to use an external cd drive, most people didn’t miss it.

The first USB-C MacBook came out four years ago . I've just taken a look at Amazon: the top hits for keyboards are USB-A, the top hits for projectors use HDMI, the top hits for 4K screens have HDMI and DisplayPort ports. Apple's portable devices all ship with USB-A charging cables. Do USB-C thumbdrives even exist? Yes, some transitions in the past worked really well. That doesn't mean that other transitions are autom…

The top hit for laptop in a windows machine, so what?

I remember being so worried about dongles and got extra. But then I found it better to just replace the cable to the printer and not have a dongle. Now they sit in a drawer unused.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#394

Post by ctrl-j » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

welly wrote: post #360

starsinspace wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if I throw away all the USB-A things I have and start over now... but that would be quite a waste. Also, try to find a true USB-C hub. With that I mean a box with one upstream USB-C input and several (>= 3) USB-C downstream ports. As far as I can tell, such products still do not exist. There are many USB-C-docks with USB-C input, various other downstream ports, and sometimes an additional USB-C port which is po…

Do you still hang onto that old VCR because DVD players won't play your tapes and it'd be a waste to throw that VCR away? At some point we have to upgrade if we want to stay current. This is the same with any technology, not just USB-C.

I just bought a brand new (released 2019) wireless Logitech mouse. Wireless dongle and charging cable are USB-A

I just bought a brand new (released 2019) audio interface, connects with USB-A

In fact, besides my recent 2018 external SSD which came with an interchangeable USB-A/C port, none of my newer devices are USB-C

So, this is more like... I've got my VCR and a DVD player, and all the new movies are only coming out on VHS

Edit: I'll add to this - it's also frustrating not having any other ports on the MBP as well. I recently had surgery and was bedridden for a while, and the nest of cables I needed for ethernet, HDMI, mouse, etc.. was insane. Normally it's not a huge deal, but there's a lot of factors that have been making me regret not getting a Razer Blade when I was deciding between the two.

I probably won't be buying another Apple laptop.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#395

Post by HeWhoLurksLate » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

keldaris wrote: post #358

stickfigure wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just last week bought a pristine, maxed-out 2015 MacBook Pro. Yet I think you're wrong about most of this. * I hate magsafe. I've owned a dozen of these and almost all of them have come apart just behind the magsafe connector. Expensive, proprietary, and fragile. I would much much rather have USB-C than shell out $90 every two years. * USB-C is great. A bunch of different ports means carrying a bunch of different c…

> I don't want a sexy svelte fragile expensive luxury status symbol. I want a rugged capital good that will reliably allow me to work for the next half-decade. Then why are you looking at Apple products at all? You're looking for a ThinkPad or an EliteBook. Fragile expensive luxury status symbols are exactly what Apple makes and always has ever since Jobs. Now they're just more blatant about it.

Thing is, they used to not be very fragile (at least, not in comparison to how they are now.)

Mind you, ThinkPads have arguably gotten less easy to repair since then, too.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#396

Post by jacobolus » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #390

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should make the caps lock key your escape key, that's what I do. It's vastly superior to the touchbar escape key. In fact, I even prefer it to a regular escape key at this point, although my muscle memory does cause problems when I use somebody else's computer. I removed the escape key from my touchbar entirely because I kept accidentally brushing it when I went to type ` or ~. I also had the lock screen widget o…

Already use it for Ctrl in the UNIX tradition, and it's really hard to change that muscle memory.

If you get a Japanese layout keyboard, you get a bunch of extra free keys which you use for whatever you want. https://i.imgur.com/tuCklIJ.jpg

Particularly handy are the extra thumb keys (I use the one to the right of the spacebar for backwards delete, but vim users could put escape there.). Also control is in the right place and caps lock is in the hard-to-reach corner, where it should be.

One especially nice approach is to re-map all of the right-hand letter keys one position over to the right, spreading the hands apart, making right enter and shift more accessible, and leaving an extra column of easily accessible index-finger keys in the middle of the keyboard.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#397

Post by YeahSureWhyNot » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #206

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

true fanboi right here. i admire the passion tho

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#398

Post by tomp » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

What will likely happen is Apple will replace Touch Bar with keys, and add OLED / e-ink screens on those keys.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#399

Post by keldaris » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #395

keldaris wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want a sexy svelte fragile expensive luxury status symbol. I want a rugged capital good that will reliably allow me to work for the next half-decade. Then why are you looking at Apple products at all? You're looking for a ThinkPad or an EliteBook. Fragile expensive luxury status symbols are exactly what Apple makes and always has ever since Jobs. Now they're just more blatant about it.

Thing is, they used to not be very fragile (at least, not in comparison to how they are now .) Mind you, ThinkPads have arguably gotten less easy to repair since then, too.

ThinkPads have certainly gotten steadily worse over the years, along with every other laptop, but relative to the rest they still seem to be the most sensible choice. Personally, I just use and maintain a collection of old ThinkPads for laptops, relegating real work to the desktop.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#400

Post by deepaksurti » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

All said and done, the problem with butterfly keyboards is the reliability. We don't associate 'unreliability' with Apple devices and screwing up on the keyboard is a big screwup because for those whom it won't work, it just makes your laptop unusable. Hence the justified pushback.

That did not happen with removal of CD drive, adding USB C only ports, removing magsafe. All these cause some painful transitions, they did not make your laptop unusable.

FWIW, I have 2018 MBP and so far the keyboard has worked fine, though I don't enjoy the lack of tactile feedback; I can see the perspective of those who bought it and the butterfly became kaput.