Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#251

Post by ramphastidae » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:02 PM UTC

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #230

parasubvert wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

I get the warm and fuzzy feeling USB-C gives nerds, cause of the open standard and interoperability, and cause it only takes one attempt to actually plug it in; but I just cannot fathom how Apple replaced Magsafe with USB-C. Magsafe was one of those magical Apple features from the mid 2000s that just delight and work incredibly well and almost seem like science fiction. It's not like they had shitty power adapters an…

You don't understand because you haven't shifted your mindset about Apple correctly. As a former Apple fan I was the same way.

Apple under Tim Cook is motivated by shareholder value, not usability or design leadership, as they were under Steve Jobs.

They got rid of Magsafe and the rest of the useful ports and added USB-C not because of the warm and fuzzy feeling it gives nerds, but because it streamlines factory production and makes the laptop thinner.

At some point Cook decided to shift their decision making from being driven by the power user's needs to being driven by the shareholder and average consumer (which is motivated more by marketing flourishes like thinner laptops and the Touch Bar than usability). Shareholders would likely applaud that.

The point is that Apple is more Microsoft than Apple these days and we should shift our expectations as such.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#252

Post by cptskippy » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:02 PM UTC

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

> The 2-meters-at-most charging cables are a downgrade

From what exactly? My 2015 MBP and partner's older Air both have 2 meter cables from the Magsafe connector to Transformer. Mac power supplies have always had a modular transformer to mains connector that you can swap out for longer if you need.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#253

Post by clolege » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

parasubvert wrote: post #235

lstamour wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devi…

I found the Magsafe adapter cords would fray, corrode, and blacken pretty easily, becoming a fire hazard. Every Macbook I owned, I would need at least one replacement over a 3 year period. The amount of time taken to re-plugin it in vs. times it saved my laptop from flying, really it was an overrated feature. USB-C comes out easily enough. Don't get me wrong, I liked Magsafe. But I don't understand the passion for it…

I wonder if you had a counterfeit Magsafe adapter? They commonly get shipped with used Macbooks, and get quite a bit hotter than their genuine counterparts.

I have personally preferred the Magsafe adapters ever since I had a USB-C powered Macbook slide off my bed by accident. It didn't fall far, but it landed right on the power cable and damaged both the USB port and the cable.

Understandably, Macbooks are not designed to withstand any sort of drops, but I'm positive that the Magsafe of my 2015 MBP would have popped out, and the body of the PC would have been fine.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#254

Post by yborg » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

iSnow wrote: post #224

arvinsim wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty hard to go back to membrane or scissor switches when one has gotten used to a mechanical keyboard. When I bough the small Magic Keyboard 2 for use with my midi controller(I needed a bluetooth keyboard), it took me weeks to adjust. It felt like banging on a flat table for a while.

I'll never understand the infatuation with mechanical kb's. I am old enough to be trained on them, but the low-travel scissor types are so much nicer to type and don't give you RSI.

Same here. It's an unpopular opinion because you lose nerd cred but I remember the din of a cube farm full of people banging away on mechanical keyboards, and I have no desire to repeat the experience in an open plan office. I'm glad the things are expensive.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#255

Post by prvc » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

>The dongles and USB-C are a mess.

The failure here is that they did not leverage their power over the market to drive adoption faster. Apple managed to get all the music labels in line back in the day, perhaps they could have done a little more to encourage peripheral makers. They could have, at the very least, dropped their proprietary lightning connector in new products in favor of USB, but I suppose they were blinded by the potential to increase short term revenue by selling superfluous future e-waste.

One would assume that they had gained knowledge as to how to encourage adoption of Type C with their experience with their previous supported standards which failed to become popular, but evidently not.

Adaptor and cable sales may have given them some revenue, but the need to use them, together with the other problems with their laptops have tarnished their brand.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#256

Post by drawnwren » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

I personally like the lack of Magsafe. It means I can charge my macbook pro and my iphone with the same cab... oh wait, no I can't. Add iPhones still using lightning to this list.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#257

Post by pier25 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

RayVR wrote: post #144

Having used the 2018 MacBook Air for about 3 months now, I can say I really detest it and I would return it if that were possible. 1) the keyboard. This thing really feels like slamming your fingers into a metal slab. I think my iPad Pro keyboard is better. The MacBook Air keyboard is also very loud. For something with so little depth the sound is shocking. 2) the webcam. Total garbage. In a laptop this expensive I t…

> Like they knowingly released something that was a stop-gap PoS.

That happened with the iPad 3. It was replaced 6 months later since its SOC was totally underpowered for its retina display.

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#258

Post by rayiner » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

aleem wrote: post #188

Apple has squandered a lot of its goodwill. It reminds me of my relationship with Microsoft products. As long as they were shipping, they were making money in the short term because people were coerced to buy in. For 5 damn years the Air didn't get a Retina display. Right now, I can't buy 2.8Ghz Macbook Pro unless I get the TouchBar. I can't buy an Air unless I settle for much lower specs. The dongles and USB-C are a…

I disagree with all of these. USB-C is great. You can use non-Apple chargers now, and external batteries. I never understood the dongle issue. You almost always need a cable to connect to something anyway, right? So why not carry a C-A cable instead of an A-A cable? Or a C to HDMI cable instead of an HDMI to HDMI cable? Or do people really leave cables at home and count on their destination having the right ones?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#259

Post by ghostpepper » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

fogetti wrote: post #165

Perceptes wrote: post #71

I desperately hope this is true. I have the first MacBook Pro that came with the Touch Bar, and it's the worst computer I've ever owned. The keyboard has failed twice, and the Touch Bar is inferior to the old hardware keys in every way. I hate it. The only reason I got it is because the MacBook Air it replaced was dying and I couldn't wait any more. Assuming this report is true, my only remaining worry is that they w…

I have a Macbook Air (2017 version) which I spilled a can of beer into. I thought it was dead but after leaving it to rest for a few days it resurrected from the dead and it works ever since like nothing happened. I love that machine. Indestructible.

While I am happy for you, I am also pretty surprised and would be interested in more details. A full can of beer is 355 mL, so how much beer are we talking about here? Are the keys not sticky at all?

Re: Kuo: Apple to include new scissor switch keyboard in MacBook

#260

Post by pmart123 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

lstamour wrote: post #220

parasubvert wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, I use a retina MBP touchbar and really don't agree. Apple has made some missteps but it's still the best pro laptop for my uses. Over two years with one replaced keyboard (because I spilled wine on it!) and no sticking keys. USB-C is awesome. I can reuse all my 3rd party and Apple adapters for my USB-C peripherals, including tablets and the Nintendo Switch. In retrospect, Magsafe wasn't that great (comes off too…

USB-C has lots of advantages, but it took 2-3 dark years before we started seeing commonly available peripherals that take advantage of the built-in protocols such as driver-less USB-C Ethernet adapters. I think USB-C on the iPad Pro and various phones has done more to turn USB-C into a viable standard than putting it on the laptops, since pros would obviously prefer existing and new Thunderbolt devices to USB-C devi…

A lot of people made the same argument when Jobs removed the cd drive from laptops. It seemed like an issue at the time given most software was still installed from CDs. After a two year dark period where you had to use an external cd drive, most people didn’t miss it.