Is there any airline manufacturer since 1950 that was not born or kept alive on the back of governmental subsidies/grants/bailouts or lucrative military contracts to fund R&D?
The Coming Boeing Bailout?
101–110 of 189 posts
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
The MCAS is a good example, why certain software must not be outsourced. Implementing the software correctly to spec isn't enough, you need enough understanding of the application to question the spec itself.
anything that is connected to the flight controls, is too important to sub out (unless you are subbing it out to someone better that you are). making an airplane is a huge endeavor that crosses across many domains. you have to have competency up and down the 'stack'. Boeing does. Maybe this will cause a re-look at outsourcing policies. (edit. yes, this software was not outsourced. but it may add another dimension oth…
It has been mentioned in the article that MCAS was never outsourced. Also it’s unfair to blame the software engineers who are building it to specification. It would be fantastical to assume that Boeing management( the same one ploughing through engineering with bean counting) would give a rats crap about a low level engineer raising a concern.
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
The MCAS is a good example, why certain software must not be outsourced. Implementing the software correctly to spec isn't enough, you need enough understanding of the application to question the spec itself.
Software engineers are not aerospace engineers. I doubt the software people would have understood the aerodynamic effects of the MCAS system by looking at the requirements.
some would, some would not. those that have been doing aircraft software for 20 years probably have a fair knowledge of airplanes, aerodynamics, and flight controls.
your comment expresses my feelings exactly on 'was this a software failure?'. No. But software was involved.
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#104Boeing and the US government recently killed the Canadian aviation industry by putting on 300% duties on our main manufacturer because of a government bailout it received. See: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/us-issues... As a result Bombardier, Canadian's only large aviation manufacturer, was sold to AirBus: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bombardie... The cause was a Canadian p…
When you ask "should" what kind of answer are you looking for? Moral or economic advantage?
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
The cancellations haven't officially taken place, but you can be damn sure everyone other than committed 737 fleets like Southwest have unofficially already cancelled their orders of MAX's. Air Canada is the perfect example, it's the first time to introduce 737's to their fleet - they are waiting for the dust to settle but you can be damn sure the 737's they already own will be sold and Boeing will largely give them…
I’m not trying to defend Boeing and I also think the problem for 737max is a serious blow to boeing, but I suspect the only chance for massive cancellations of its orders is when ffa designates it as a new airworthiness type. Even that might depend on contract details. What also make the cancellations less likely, in my opinion is that its competitors, the A320neo has a backlog of more than 10 years at the current pr…
Airbus can always just increase production if the demand was high enough
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's quite pathetic, given that the actuarial value of a life is actually around $5-10M (in the US anyway). They're going to end up paying out a lot more money in the lawsuits though, so we don't know the final total number yet.
Let's not forget where the two max's crashed. Ethiopia and Indonesia. Some bean counters already decided the value of a life in these, "shit hole countries." I wouldn't be surprised if they literally took the cost of living index in the US and compared it to these countries and proudly patted themselves on this back when they came up with this amazing cost savings... I hope the individuals, airlines and the countries…
The planes had a huge mix of people of all nationalities aboard them though, including some from every wealthy western nation. Air travel tends to be a lot more diverse than whatever country the flight is occurring in, especially in non-wealthy countries (where the average foreigner can better afford flight than the average citizen).
My guess is they expect well more than this amount to be paid out in lawsuit winnings. Any single lawsuit in the US here over this could easily result in an award of tens of millions of dollars -- and they have several hundred deaths on their hands.
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
The crazy thing is that Boeing hasn't designed a new clean-sheet small jet since 1967, when the 737 came out. Prior to that they were iterating on a pretty rapid cadence, with the 707, 717, 720, and 727, and then they just got stuck in an absolute rut and have been increasingly paying the consequences as the 737 no longer stacks up favorably against the much newer clean-sheet designs put out by their competitors. To…
> its low ground clearance is caused by the need to be able to fit a folding staircase inside the aircraft itself. Which incidentally is the major reason why it is the Ryanair main aircraft.
Are you sure? Does Ryanair actually use the integrated stairs, or do they use staircars? I thought they stopped making 737s with the integrated stairs some time ago? Is Ryanair using old planes?
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#108Boeing and the US government recently killed the Canadian aviation industry by putting on 300% duties on our main manufacturer because of a government bailout it received. See: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/us-issues... As a result Bombardier, Canadian's only large aviation manufacturer, was sold to AirBus: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bombardie... The cause was a Canadian p…
Given America-first and China-first attitudes, smaller countries will have to band together into trade blocs, either minimalist like the TPP, or maximalist like the EU, in order to get fair treatment. It’s the principle reason why Brexit is a disaster for the UK.
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
The crazy thing is that Boeing hasn't designed a new clean-sheet small jet since 1967, when the 737 came out. Prior to that they were iterating on a pretty rapid cadence, with the 707, 717, 720, and 727, and then they just got stuck in an absolute rut and have been increasingly paying the consequences as the 737 no longer stacks up favorably against the much newer clean-sheet designs put out by their competitors. To…
It’s worth noting that even though the 717 was first released in the late 90’s it isn’t a case of Boeing innovating since it’s just a rebadged MD-95 which was developed by McDonnell-Douglas
Thanks for the correction, I got my timing on the 717 wrong. It only ever saw 156 built though so it's pretty much a rounding error in the grand scheme of things (contrasted with the A320 family, closing in on 10k built, or the 737 family, with over 10k built).
Re: The Coming Boeing Bailout?
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's not forget where the two max's crashed. Ethiopia and Indonesia. Some bean counters already decided the value of a life in these, "shit hole countries." I wouldn't be surprised if they literally took the cost of living index in the US and compared it to these countries and proudly patted themselves on this back when they came up with this amazing cost savings... I hope the individuals, airlines and the countries…
Ethiopian Airlines is a Star Alliance member. It must be one of the premier customers of Boeing, and was one of the first airlines to introduce the Dreamliner and 737 MAX into their fleets. If word gets around that this is how they treat their good customers, this itself might be a nail in the coffin for Boeing.
It's also the largest airline in Africa and it has been growing rapidly. Definitely a customer you'd want to keep satisfied.